Lost third gear!

[Happy Days]

Ok update and reminder.

Belfast OPC have advised that the cost of repair is around £8,500. However they will contribute £3,000 and Porsche GB will contribute £500. Contacted Porsche GB and explained nicely that I am unhappy with their offer and asked why there was no recall on this model while the GT4 had and that they knowingly sold me a car that had a fundamental fault. They reverted upping their offer to £1,000 as a final offer.

I replied stating again that I was unhappy, that they had supplied me with a car that had a known issue from new, and that I was disappointed that the GT4s were recalled when 718s weren't and that I would at least expect them to cover the cost of the parts.

They just replied stating that the £1,000 was their final offer and that if I was unhappy, I should refer the case to the Motoring Ombudsman and that Porsche AG would have issued a recall if the 'box was faulty. As the vehicle is out of warranty, they (Porsche AG) would not be looking to cover the costs.

There was (as of last week) only one 718 gearbox remaining in stock in Germany, so I have advised Belfast to go ahead and get it in. I have now been carless since 14 March and just want my car back working properly. No contact with Porsche Belfast since.

Think it is time to open a case with the Ombudsman.

[Patt]

DO it !

This is the same company that think brakes sticking on in hot weather is NOT a safety issue or recall !

90% of your frustration will be condescending idiots at Porsche GB - wouldn't happen in the USA !!

Great cars, when they work.  shyatee support from their franchise outlets, and shyatee design work on known issues.

[Menoporsche]

National newspaper. Times or Telegraph, or Top Gear. Readers who might buy a new Porsche. 

[Carmand]

6 hours ago, Happy Days said:

Ok update and reminder.

Belfast OPC have advised that the cost of repair is around £8,500. However they will contribute £3,000 and Porsche GB will contribute £500. Contacted Porsche GB and explained nicely that I am unhappy with their offer and asked why there was no recall on this model while the GT4 had and that they knowingly sold me a car that had a fundamental fault. They reverted upping their offer to £1,000 as a final offer.

I replied stating again that I was unhappy, that they had supplied me with a car that had a known issue from new, and that I was disappointed that the GT4s were recalled when 718s weren't and that I would at least expect them to cover the cost of the parts.

They just replied stating that the £1,000 was their final offer and that if I was unhappy, I should refer the case to the Motoring Ombudsman and that Porsche AG would have issued a recall if the 'box was faulty. As the vehicle is out of warranty, they (Porsche AG) would not be looking to cover the costs.

There was (as of last week) only one 718 gearbox remaining in stock in Germany, so I have advised Belfast to go ahead and get it in. I have now been carless since 14 March and just want my car back working properly. No contact with Porsche Belfast since.

Think it is time to open a case with the Ombudsman.

Takes a few hours to raise a case properly and when I did it a 2 or 3 month wait before it could be looked at.  Don’t think you’ve much to lose based on the offer you’ve received.

Is there any way of establishing the approximate number of cars built between the ones that were recalled and yours?  Clearly it’s exactly the same failure so it would seem difficult for them to argue that one is covered and not both.

I also don’t the understand the disparity between what the OPC are prepared to contribute versus Porsche GB - there’s repeated evidence of very uncustomer friendly behaviour from them all over the internet, they are really damaging their brand long term.  Good luck.

[Menoporsche]

D chunk, IMS, bore score… sorry, they have previous. As I explained to someone very excited to ride in my car this afternoon, this is why I will not buy a Porsche family car. Expensive repair bills and no interest from them until big lawyers get involved. 

[Bike Loon]

Just read all 4 pages... pretty p!ss poor reaction from Porsche

 

[Ninesomething]

I've just changed my mind about that 718 4.0 that I couldn't afford. Take that Porsche....

I wouldn't want a PDK anyway and there's the 10k bill if it goes south but now there's an 8.5k bill because the manual isn't up to snuff. Do they do any other gearboxes?

[Happy Days]

Ok, latest update. I now have my car back.

Nobody has been able to tell me if the new gearbox that was fitted still has the shaft welded or if the box was updated to a splined shaft. The part number fitted ends with a C which would indicate that this is the 4th modification (bare, A, B C) although these could be for any number of mods to seals etc.

Service manager and I had a long chat. He reckoned I was very lucky to get Porsche UK to stump up anything additional and that I basically got a good deal. His take was that the dealership did everything at cost price to keep my bill down, however I'm still pretty peed off at having to spend £4,384.16 on a new gearbox.

They did fit a new clutch (he reckoned they wouldn't do the replacement without doing that) and I got a 4-wheel alignment as part of the job. They had to drain down the cooling system too (didn't think that was needed).

He also advised that Porsche don't allow them to open the six speed gearboxes. They used to do 5-speeds if there were any issues but he reckoned since the 6-speed introduction they aren't allowed inside due to balance issues which I thought was b*ll*cks. The 986 had 6-speeds 20 years ago!

Glad to have the car returned after almost 10 weeks of using public transport and blagging lifts everywhere.

All in all, this has left a bad taste in the mouth. I will ponder a while before deciding what to do next.

[Nobbie]

19 minutes ago, Happy Days said:

Ok, latest update. I now have my car back.

Nobody has been able to tell me if the new gearbox that was fitted still has the shaft welded or if the box was updated to a splined shaft. The part number fitted ends with a C which would indicate that this is the 4th modification (bare, A, B C) although these could be for any number of mods to seals etc.

Service manager and I had a long chat. He reckoned I was very lucky to get Porsche UK to stump up anything additional and that I basically got a good deal. His take was that the dealership did everything at cost price to keep my bill down, however I'm still pretty peed off at having to spend £4,384.16 on a new gearbox.

They did fit a new clutch (he reckoned they wouldn't do the replacement without doing that) and I got a 4-wheel alignment as part of the job. They had to drain down the cooling system too (didn't think that was needed).

He also advised that Porsche don't allow them to open the six speed gearboxes. They used to do 5-speeds if there were any issues but he reckoned since the 6-speed introduction they aren't allowed inside due to balance issues which I thought was b*ll*cks. The 986 had 6-speeds 20 years ago!

Glad to have the car returned after almost 10 weeks of using public transport and blagging lifts everywhere.

All in all, this has left a bad taste in the mouth. I will ponder a while before deciding what to do next.

Gotta love the Service manager trying to make you feel positive about needing a new gearbox on a fairy young Porsche because of a Porsche manufacturing defect🥴.

”Haven’t you done well there sir?”🙄

[iborguk]

53 minutes ago, Happy Days said:

Ok, latest update. I now have my car back.

Nobody has been able to tell me if the new gearbox that was fitted still has the shaft welded or if the box was updated to a splined shaft. The part number fitted ends with a C which would indicate that this is the 4th modification (bare, A, B C) although these could be for any number of mods to seals etc.

Service manager and I had a long chat. He reckoned I was very lucky to get Porsche UK to stump up anything additional and that I basically got a good deal. His take was that the dealership did everything at cost price to keep my bill down, however I'm still pretty peed off at having to spend £4,384.16 on a new gearbox.

They did fit a new clutch (he reckoned they wouldn't do the replacement without doing that) and I got a 4-wheel alignment as part of the job. They had to drain down the cooling system too (didn't think that was needed).

He also advised that Porsche don't allow them to open the six speed gearboxes. They used to do 5-speeds if there were any issues but he reckoned since the 6-speed introduction they aren't allowed inside due to balance issues which I thought was b*ll*cks. The 986 had 6-speeds 20 years ago!

Glad to have the car returned after almost 10 weeks of using public transport and blagging lifts everywhere.

All in all, this has left a bad taste in the mouth. I will ponder a while before deciding what to do next.

Glad it’s fixed and back with you.

Care to share the full box part number you ended up with ?

Thanks

[Happy Days]

12 minutes ago, iborguk said:

Glad it’s fixed and back with you.

Care to share the full box part number you ended up with ?

Thanks

I will when I get home. Invoice in the kitchen!

[Happy Days]

5 hours ago, Happy Days said:

I will when I get home. Invoice in the kitchen!

[iborguk]

So that’s an exchange box and that pricing is before VAT.

Still back to enjoying it 👍

Edited May 21 by iborguk

[Pothole]

On 5/10/2024 at 6:13 PM, Carmand said:

I also don’t the understand the disparity between what the OPC are prepared to contribute versus Porsche GB...

That'll be because it's not real money. The "money off" will be versus the price you're normally charged for the gearbox. But what the OPC pays for the box is a fraction of figure you would be charged as a punter, onto which there's a huge mark up for the dealer. They may still making money on the box, even so. And of course there's the labour charge.

I had an engine replacement under (extended) Porsche warranty a few years back. The service manager was kind enough to show me the price 'charged' to the underwriter for the new short engine provided by Porsche. It was well under half what I would have had to pay (the extended warranty is really an insurance policy where the underwriter has preferred access to parts without the dealer mark up).

So the dealer isn't paying anything toward the repair, just making less or at worst no money on marking up the gearbox massively. That mark up will likely have dictated what they were willing to "contribute". They look good offering to contribute money when really they're just forgoing some or all of their mark up. Factor in the labour charges and they're still making money on the job, for sure. Porsche GB's contribution may actually be real money.

[Ninesomething]

Has to be said that it's well known that a 718S produces way more torque than any previous Boxster so to fit that car with a gearbox that's less able to withstand the extra torque is a reckless act by Porsche in my opinion. They should hang their heads and stand in the corner. Not trying to sway your opinion but if I owned such a car I'd get out from under before it becomes a common problem and resale values do an`IMS`. 

[Pothole]

It's nothing like IMS. If it becomes more common, more cost effective solutions will appear to address it.

For example, Sports and Classic will repair 2nd gear in the 987.1 manuals for £3,200 plus VAT including all labour:

https://sportsandclassic.com/porsche-gearbox-repairs/

Not cheap, but a lot cheaper than a quality rebuild after an IMS failure. Will be interesting to see how it all develops. Porsche has explicitly acknowledged a fault with the same box in the GT4. Given the 2.5S has the same 420nm torque claim (and if anything i reality makes more torque than the 3.8 in the GT4), it's hard to see how they could deny it's a known manufacturing fault. Well, it's not hard as Porsche has form, but you know what I mean.

If you were brave enough to go to court, I think you'd win. But that's all a bit of a ball ache.

[Happy Days]

14 hours ago, Pothole said:

It's nothing like IMS. If it becomes more common, more cost effective solutions will appear to address it.

For example, Sports and Classic will repair 2nd gear in the 987.1 manuals for £3,200 plus VAT including all labour:

https://sportsandclassic.com/porsche-gearbox-repairs/

Not cheap, but a lot cheaper than a quality rebuild after an IMS failure. Will be interesting to see how it all develops. Porsche has explicitly acknowledged a fault with the same box in the GT4. Given the 2.5S has the same 420nm torque claim (and if anything i reality makes more torque than the 3.8 in the GT4), it's hard to see how they could deny it's a known manufacturing fault. Well, it's not hard as Porsche has form, but you know what I mean.

If you were brave enough to go to court, I think you'd win. But that's all a bit of a ball ache.

My preferred option is via the ombudsman.

[Ninesomething]

21 hours ago, Pothole said:

It's nothing like IMS. If it becomes more common, more cost effective solutions will appear to address it.

For example, Sports and Classic will repair 2nd gear in the 987.1 manuals for £3,200 plus VAT including all labour:

https://sportsandclassic.com/porsche-gearbox-repairs/

Not cheap, but a lot cheaper than a quality rebuild after an IMS failure. Will be interesting to see how it all develops. Porsche has explicitly acknowledged a fault with the same box in the GT4. Given the 2.5S has the same 420nm torque claim (and if anything i reality makes more torque than the 3.8 in the GT4), it's hard to see how they could deny it's a known manufacturing fault. Well, it's not hard as Porsche has form, but you know what I mean.

If you were brave enough to go to court, I think you'd win. But that's all a bit of a ball ache.

I was referring to the fact that IMS became a scare story which still haunts the forums all these years later and caused used prices to nosedive. The internet has a way of amplifying these things.

[Pothole]

2 hours ago, Ninesomething said:

I was referring to the fact that IMS became a scare story which still haunts the forums all these years later and caused used prices to nosedive. The internet has a way of amplifying these things.

 

Yeah, I doubt that will happen with the 3rd gear thing re killing values. Think the problem is limited to a fairly small number of early manual 982s, and probably only the 2.5, given the 2.0 produces less torque.

Even if it does become more widespread, once the aftermarket gets properly involved, the solution will be much cheaper. The reason why IMS took on such significance was that there's no cheap way to completely rebuild a Porsche engine.\

Granted, the gearbox will never be actually cheap. But it will b e far less than a full engine rebuild should we get to the point where it's commonly addressed on the aftermarket.