K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 So, I picked this puppy up on the bay. DSC_1198 by ash_ashy_mo, on Flickr The seller stated that they had it in their 986 for a couple of years and it worked fine. Sold the car, sold the relay separately to someone who couldn't get it to work. As the seller didn't have a 986 anymore, they couldn't test it and clearly marked it as spares / repairs. Being naive and a glutton for punishment, I thought maybe the guy who couldn't get it to work was unlucky. I couldn't get it to work either. I followed the instructions and lowered the roof. I also had the handbrake off and held the roof open button down whilst turning the ignition on - the manual states this will 'reset' the relay. Something to do with pre and post 2000 cars having slightly different electrics. Well, the roof mechanism did do something and didn't sound to great when I did the above. I feared the worst and thought I'd lunched the mechanism and broke a pushrod. Anyway, the roof appeared to be dead with the smart top. I couldn't get it to work. It then, conveniently, started to chuck it down when i was sans roof - swapped the original relay back in and all seems well. Mechanism seems fine too. Any suggestions? Going to try again when the weather's better and I have more time, but I did ensure I had firmly inserted it. I did RTFM too: http://www.mods4cars.com/sms/db/smarttop/ext/support/manuals/porsche/STAXPE1/general/en.php Generally speaking, a relay is a relatively simple device and whilst they do break, surely this isn't an often occurrence? I wonder if this one is actually defective or if I'm doing something wrong. If I can't get it to work, I am tempted to open it up. I am handy with a soldering iron. Does anyone know how these work anyway? It's just a stock relay that's been modified somehow. Can't see the magic smoke escaping if I take it apart and I'm curious to see what they've done. They've disabled the requirement for the handbrake to be activated, which is easy enough. They've circumvented the speed limiter, so it works up to a certain (~24 MPH) speed and somehow fitted some wizardry to make it one touch. The latter I can do with an Arduino, I'm curious about the speed limiter - easy to bypass completely, but raise it from 0 to 24 MPH? Plus it is quite cool that they've made a plug and play solution. It was cheap enough to take a punt on - less than a tank of fuel. I don't like being defeated, however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Can't help with your query but mine was bought second hand, stuck into my 2000 S and now is in my 2004. I didn't have to do any 'programming' just plug and play. i would find another local SmartTop owner and do a bit of experimentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I thought I'd do what the manual mentioned re: To set the module for automatic detection: With handbrake released, press and hold the top OPEN button while you insert the key into the ignition lock and turn it to full ignition (not starting the engine). About 1 sec later let go of the button and wait 5 sec. Highly doubt it has something as sophisticated as an EPROM, but couldn't do any harm. I will try again when the weather's better or try it another 986. I wonder if any of the northern crew have a known working smart top I could try @Nobbie, @Loz987, @Greenman? Am curious to see what's 'in the box' though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbie Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, K.I.T.T. said: I thought I'd do what the manual mentioned re: To set the module for automatic detection: With handbrake released, press and hold the top OPEN button while you insert the key into the ignition lock and turn it to full ignition (not starting the engine). About 1 sec later let go of the button and wait 5 sec. Highly doubt it has something as sophisticated as an EPROM, but couldn't do any harm. I will try again when the weather's better or try it another 986. I wonder if any of the northern crew have a known working smart top I could try @Nobbie, @Loz987, @Greenman? Am curious to see what's 'in the box' though! Bit of a sore point with me, got scammed by a bloke on here @Boxstertop, who sold me a unit that didn't work and then wouldn't refund me. Never tried a smart top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenman Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Sorry mines a 981 so uses some factory fitted magic. I know Nobbie and Loz have both used something similar, not without issue though if I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, Nobbie said: Bit of a sore point with me, got scammed by a bloke on here @Boxstertop, who sold me a unit that didn't work and then wouldn't refund me. Never tried a smart top. People can be douchebags. I'd be curious to see if it would work in your 986. I do need to PM you at some point regarding picking up some condenser seals from OPC as discussed earlier. Perhaps we could give it a try? And sorry Wayne, due to some reason, I thought your username was Mick's - @bally4563 ! Apologies. I'll get this right one day! @bagss2, how about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topradio Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 While it's often referred to as a relay it's actually much more complex than that. I have never actually taken one apart but i am sure that it will contain some fairly sophisticated logic to determine the position of the various switches and also the cars speed, rather than just knowing that the car is moving. I would break the seal and take a look for any damaged components. It could be something as simple as a dry joint on one of the pins as it's quite a tug to get it in and out. Oh! and post a pic of the inside for our delectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topradio Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 @K.I.T.T. if you don't feel confident pulling the unit apart, I could be interested in doing it. Purely for research purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I do appreciate that Eddie, as mentioned, I am curious to see what they've done. I suspect some of it will be simple. Pin 15 for the handbrake may have simply been disabled internally and a jumper wire ran, as per the "Pedro mod". Pin 18 is the speed signal, I suspect a resistor or something has been added there. As far as I can tell, pin 25 receives a signal from the open switch and pin 27 receives a signal from the close switch. There will be other signals from the roof latch microswitch, perhaps from the dash light (maybe that's used in the smart top's logic as a 'limiter'). Then, there'll be power and ground. Something funky will be going on with pins 18, 25 and 27 for sure. EDIT: I am curious to pull it apart too. I am slightly paranoid about the electronics, in case they've installed it cunningly in a self-sacrificial way on the inside of the cover, so it breaks if someone dismantles it. Paranoid much?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 The cover comes off easy enough. Use a screwdriver or similar on each of the long sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topradio Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 As I understand it the SMARTtop isn't simply a modified Porsche unit but a totally different box of tricks that they have engineered themselves. Though I could be wrong there. I have considered getting one for my 981. It gives less extra functionality compared to the 986 one as the later car already does most of what the SMARTtop offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patt Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 In my experience these relays often need a week or so to settle down, before working fully. I know if I remove mine it's temperamental for quite a while after being re-installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, topradio said: As I understand it the SMARTtop isn't simply a modified Porsche unit but a totally different box of tricks that they have engineered themselves. I very much doubt that. Probably very little is done to them. Would be interesting to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 @Patt, do you install yours with the roof up then? My car lives outside - the manual suggests installing with the top down, but as my car lives outside, I can't really leave it with the roof down. @PaulQ - I was postulating that some additional electronics may have been fixed to the inside of the shell, thus causing some damage if one tries to separate. Just a theory, which may have no merit. And @topradio, I'm led to believe it's a modified stock relay. Certainly looks stock, also, see the label - note the small line of writing below the shaded red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topradio Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 That's interesting. There must be a reasonable amount of modification to fit the speed sensing and one touch operation. It would make a lot of sense for them to start with a standard part though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 34 minutes ago, K.I.T.T. said: EDIT: I am curious to pull it apart too. I am slightly paranoid about the electronics, in case they've installed it cunningly in a self-sacrificial way on the inside of the cover, so it breaks if someone dismantles it. Paranoid much?! 29 minutes ago, PaulQ said: The cover comes off easy enough. Use a screwdriver or similar on each of the long sides. Anyone remember Bob Newhart? The police captain, whose trooper finds a bomb on the beach, and is giving instructions on how to defuse it over the phone.... "Now it says, now this is very important, it says, 'This plate should be removed with an LT5 screwdriver with a plastic handle and a de-magnetised tip'... Oh, you don't have one, huh? Aw, use a coin then, Willard... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagss2 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, K.I.T.T. said: @bagss2, how about you? No, I just have a spare standard relay ready for pin-bending and a wire to be soldered in to it - apparently. I understand that will side-step the handbrake-on requirement and allow roof opening/closure at low speed, albeit without one-touch... All this said, it will probably just stay in my central cubby un-touched for another two years... Cheers, Baggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, bagss2 said: No, I just have a spare standard relay ready for pin-bending and a wire to be soldered in to it - apparently. I understand that will side-step the handbrake-on requirement and allow roof opening/closure at low speed, albeit without one-touch... All this said, it will probably just stay in my central cubby un-touched for another two years... Cheers, Baggers. Yes - one touch can be done relatively easily using an Adruino board, a couple of voltage regulators and transistors. Combined with the modded relay, in effect you have a smart top, albeit without the speed limit safeguard. Just be sensible and don't operate your roof above 0.3 leptons. Happy to help with both if you supply the parts. I'll come round Knuts with my soldering iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That986 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Nobbie said: Bit of a sore point with me, got scammed by a bloke on here @Boxstertop, who sold me a unit that didn't work and then wouldn't refund me. Never tried a smart top. Weirdly enough mine still works perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, topradio said: That's interesting. There must be a reasonable amount of modification to fit the speed sensing and one touch operation. Only one way to find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagss2 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 55 minutes ago, K.I.T.T. said: Yes - one touch can be done relatively easily using an Adruino board, a couple of voltage regulators and transistors. Combined with the modded relay, in effect you have a smart top, albeit without the speed limit safeguard. Just be sensible and don't operate your roof above 0.3 leptons. Happy to help with both if you supply the parts. I'll come round Knuts with my soldering iron. That's very kind Ash. Maybe take in a lap or two of the Chelfordring too? Cheers, Baggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Absolutely Baggers. Haven't built / used any Arduino kits, but have the schematics and instructions. I reckon <£20 in parts. I was originally going to do this until I came across my (potentially buggered) smart top. Depending on the outcome of my investigations, I may end up doing this yet. I'm thinking of my dubious relay and visualising all of you lot going "WHAT'S IN THE BOOOOOOOOOX!!!!" ala Se7en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 @TimsterC already has a load of Arduinos made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderman8 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I've got a feeling the electronics inside are potted - to prevent copying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topradio Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Yes, I should think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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