Repair Quote

[edc]

26 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

At risk of turning this into yet another IMS thread, one other note on early cars with high mileage and original IMS bearing - @the baron is over 210k miles on his '97 car and had his checked in situ recently when his clutch was done by a well respected indy, Lee at Cotswold Porsche.  No concern on condition.

There is limited checking you can do, you can remove the seal and do a visual check, but it's not typically a remove check and refit type of item. 

For some IMS bearing types the train of though is remove seal, inspect, then remove outer bearing seal. 

[½cwt]

26 minutes ago, ATM said:

This normally happens if you talk shyatee on this forum and get put in the dog house.  Just start grovelling more and it might come back.

Hope you're not suggesting that is what @Photogirl has done!

[Photogirl]

48 minutes ago, ATM said:

Just start grovelling more and it might come back.

😆

No problem at all - I'm more than happy to grovel to my friends here, I think they're fantastic. 💖

Whilst some may find this thread dull, I think it could be useful to others in a similar position to myself.

In my defence, the prices I mentioned appear to be in line with the other indis I got in touch with (one was actually a bit more on two of the things). This appears to be largely down to region.

However - as has been rightly pointed out I don't own a high value car and so there may be ways to minimise expenditure on it. In that respect the advice about parts and pointing me in the direction of TROOPER88 has been extremely useful.

For completeness I will say that following my meeting with the workshop yesterday, they have been very helpful in looking at different options and different suppliers (again, thank you to the members here for the discussion about parts) - which has brought some of the figures down quite noticeably. As also mentioned many of these are not urgent so can be considered later on.

The workshop didn't even mention the IMS if we were to do the clutch this time, it was me who was (only mildly) curious about it. 

[Photogirl]

42 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

Hope you're not suggesting that is what @Photogirl has done!

I've forgiven him!  

[ATM]

49 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

Hope you're not suggesting that is what @Photogirl has done!

Oh My God

I am shocked you could even think that

[K.I.T.T.]

Just catching up - how many miles has your car done @Photogirl? Apols if I've missed this.

 

[bally4563]

Solution!!

[the baron]

On 7/19/2023 at 9:30 AM, Photogirl said:

Yes, I was thinking she likely has the dual row bearing, so low risk of failure. But there is all the talk of putting the LN bearing in pre-emptively when the clutch is done, just in case. So I'm not sure where to go on this one, it seems to create some arguments. I have heard of one or two 2.5 models suffering IMS failure. 

I had my clutch done at 207k I have a 1997 2.5, after lots of research I didn’t replace the IMS, by putting a new one in at that many miles there will be lots of wear on other parts around that area which the old bearing has worn/bedded in with, you could end up with a failure due to this, so best left alone, I did have the RMS done at the same time. Which you might want to consider, it’s a cheap future proofer.

[Photogirl]

14 hours ago, K.I.T.T. said:

Just catching up - how many miles has your car done @Photogirl? Apols if I've missed this.

 

Hi @K.I.T.T., Bambi has done 65k, full service history, garaged, well maintained. Currently on all original parts save for one coffin arm and MAF (and some minor bits). I bought her in 2008, she is a 1998 2.5.

She's been sparsely driven in the last few years due to a frustrating hot start problem (this was thankfully resolved not long ago at the 4th indi I went to). My intention is to start using her much more often.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Photogirl

[map]

2 hours ago, Photogirl said:

My intention is to start using her much more often.

👏

[bally4563]

2 hours ago, Photogirl said:

Hi @K.I.T.T., Bambi has done 65k, full service history, garaged, well maintained. Currently on all original parts save for one coffin arm and MAF (and some minor bits). I bought her in 2008, she is a 1998 2.5.

She's been sparsely driven in the last few years due to a frustrating hot start problem (this was thankfully resolved not long ago at the 4th indi I went to). My intention is to start using her much more often.

What cured the hot start issue?

[edc]

Personally if you've had nothing done apart from replacing failed items I'd start thinking and budgeting for doing some preventative maintenance. Some will see this as a waste of money but unless you want your fix to be preceded by a trailer then for the hassle it's worth it. There are lots of bits that deteriorate with use over time and you may want to batch some together. Some stuff stops you from going other stuff soldiers on butt really detracts from the use of the car:

Cooling system: rads, water pump, cap, expansion tank, all go in time. This stuff generally isn't given much if any attention at service unless there is an obvious problem.

Brakes: corroded hard lines, bulging flexis, corroded discs. Easy to inspect and checked at MOT. 

Alternator: normally get some sort of heads up it's failing.

Fuel pump: normally just goes.

Suspension: rarely fails leaving you stranded, unless a corroded spring. But will be tired and baggy. Perfectly ok if you pootle around but not so good nearer the limits. Normally still driveable even with knocks and clunks. If you're going to do it I think it's worth going the whole hog or doing all arms/bushes as one phase and springs/dampers the next or vice versa probably slightl cheaper on labour. 

Clutch: normally get some feel that it's going to go. 

 

 

[Photogirl]

12 minutes ago, bally4563 said:

What cured the hot start issue?

Purge valve solenoid (not the thing near the wheel arch - this is near the top of the engine. I did a thread on it.

[Photogirl]

11 minutes ago, edc said:

Personally if you've had nothing done apart from replacing failed items I'd start thinking and budgeting for doing some preventative maintenance. Some will see this as a waste of money but unless you want your fix to be preceded by a trailer then for the hassle it's worth it. There are lots of bits that deteriorate with use over time and you may want to batch some together. Some stuff stops you from going other stuff soldiers on butt really detracts from the use of the car:

Cooling system: rads, water pump, cap, expansion tank, all go in time. This stuff generally isn't given much if any attention at service unless there is an obvious problem.

Brakes: corroded hard lines, bulging flexis, corroded discs. Easy to inspect and checked at MOT. 

Alternator: normally get some sort of heads up it's failing.

Fuel pump: normally just goes.

Suspension: rarely fails leaving you stranded, unless a corroded spring. But will be tired and baggy. Perfectly ok if you pootle around but not so good nearer the limits. Normally still driveable even with knocks and clunks. If you're going to do it I think it's worth going the whole hog or doing all arms/bushes as one phase and springs/dampers the next or vice versa probably slightl cheaper on labour. 

Clutch: normally get some feel that it's going to go. 

 

 

Agree, and have budgeted. I've just had a very thorough inspection done and only two items are 'must be done now' (as in MOT failure - brake lines, PAS lines) and a few amber items which will need doing soon but not urgent. Other bits I'm considering is water pump and clutch (not overly worn apparently but feeling very heavy). Otherwise all appears good.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Photogirl

[bally4563]

7 minutes ago, Photogirl said:

Purge valve solenoid (not the thing near the wheel arch - this is near the top of the engine. I did a thread on it.

👍just for my own bank of knowledge 

[½cwt]

7 minutes ago, Photogirl said:

Purge valve solenoid (not the thing near the wheel arch - this is near the top of the engine. I did a thread on it.

This one, which IIRC is helpfully not listed as a part in the parts cat available from Porsche...:

 

[bally4563]

18 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

This one, which IIRC is helpfully not listed as a part in the parts cat available from Porsche...:

 

Ah!! I’ve always wondered what it’s function was👍

[bally4563]

Just now, bally4563 said:

Ah!! I’ve always wondered what it’s function was👍

Everyday is a school day !!!

[K.I.T.T.]

7 hours ago, Photogirl said:

Hi @K.I.T.T., Bambi has done 65k, full service history, garaged, well maintained. Currently on all original parts save for one coffin arm and MAF (and some minor bits). I bought her in 2008, she is a 1998 2.5.

Thank you. Have added some commentary below in blue - click the expand button.

This is IMO - and it is just that.

It's based on my own experiences of running two high (120k+ mile) 986s as semi-dailys since 2016, and having to do most, if not all the items on your shopping list at some point.

 

 

On 7/19/2023 at 8:16 AM, Photogirl said:

Needs Doing:

 

MOT  £54.85

 

Major Service (don't have price yet)

 

Front Shock Absorbers, Top Mounts, Bump stops and associated fittings £1440 inc VAT Pair - I'd ask why these are required. Unless there's a clear issue, I'd suggest this is something that could be put off. At 60k, they may not be factory fresh, but I have seen some 986s on much higher mileages used "in anger" with no complaints.

 

Either way, that price is close to what I paid for a complete suspension overhaul two years ago.

 

Replace Front Anti Roll Bar Links £336 inc VAT Pair (£240 inc VAT if done with Front Shock Absorbers )

 

Replace Rear Anti Roll Bar , bushes and links £659 inc VAT

 

ARBs can corrode where the bushes sit. Had this on the RARB on my old 2.7. Fit new bushes, but the ARB had corroded that much that they needed to be replaced. Picked up a used, but good ARB for <£50.

 

 

Replace PAS pipes on steering rack and hydraulic lines from joiner half way down the car (MOT issue). £1868 inc VAT

 

What's the issue with the hydraulic lines? If the ferrule has split, the typical specialist "hack" is to secure with a jubilee clip.

 

Replace Coffin Arms (x3) £950 inc VAT

 

4 Wheel alignment £132 inc VAT

 

May well need doing at this mileage, but price for coffin arms is obscene.

 

With Engine removed additional cost to replace 6 ignition coils £400 inc VAT

 

Obscene price - From memory, paid ~£150 for Beru (OEM) coils. It's half an hour labour to replace, and engine doesn't need to be dropped. Also see below.

 

Remove engine to gain access , replace front sections of rear brake lines, replace rear sections of rear brake lines, replace hoses as required , refit and bleed system £2100 inc VAT

 

Using kunifer pipe, it's possible to do this with the engine in situ. There's absolutely no point in dropping the engine to just do the brake lines.

 

For info, up north, the price to drop and refit the engine is circa £600 + vodka and tonic.

 

 

 

May need doing at some point in next few years:

 

With Engine removed additional cost to replace water pump £382 inc VAT - (has not failed, purely pre-emptive quote)

 

Possible to do as and when, with the engine in situ. Would suggest this is classic upselling.

 

For info, both my cars (circa 120k and 130k at the time) were running just fine with the original pump. With the first one, I asked my (really good) specialist about doing it as preventative maintenance, and was talked out of it, saying there was no need to.

 

OTOH, I have a friend with a 996 whose pump failed at <90k. The failure mode is typically a failed bearing, leading to leaks. They typically go with no warning, but there's no "recommended" time / mileage to replace these.

 

With Engine removed additional cost to replace clutch £576 inc VAT - (has not failed, purely pre-emptive quote)

 

Have heard of clutches 'just failing' - rare but does happen. They can wear out around the 60k mark, but will soldier on - if your clutch is very heavy, it suggests it could be due replacement.

 

However, that's the price I would expect to pay with the engine still in the car. Should be a lot cheaper with the engine out.

 

With Engine removed additional cost to replace starter motor £360 inc VAT - (has not failed, purely pre-emptive quote)

 

IMO pointless. When I had a 'new' engine put in mine, the starter was a bit sticky (24k miles) - I swapped in the original starter. 140k+ miles and was in better condition than the 24k mile one and is still going strong.

 

With brake lines removed send calipers away for refurbishment, replace link pipes and fittings as required £1100 inc VAT set of 4 - colour choice TBC. - (has not failed, purely pre-emptive quote)

 

IMO, complete waste of money.

Edited July 22, 2023 by K.I.T.T.

[bally4563]

14 minutes ago, K.I.T.T. said:

Thank you. Have added some commentary below in blue - click the expand button.

This is IMO - and it is just that.

It's based on my own experiences of running two high (120k+ mile) 986s as semi-dailys since 2016, and having to do most, if not all the items on your shopping list at some point.

 

 

Good informative feed back Ash

[½cwt]

4 hours ago, K.I.T.T. said:

Thank you. Have added some commentary below in blue - click the expand button.

This is IMO - and it is just that.

It's based on my own experiences of running two high (120k+ mile) 986s as semi-dailys since 2016, and having to do most, if not all the items on your shopping list at some point.

 

 

The final one on caliper refurb, I had mine done a BCS in Nottingham earlier this year, I supplied the new nipples and seals (about £35) but needed 3 new pistons due to pitting, complete strip paint and test £585 +VAT incl delivery.  I also fitted new caliper bolts which were about £50 too.  With the car already up on stands to remove and refit just the caliper (so 2 operations well under an hour including reconnecting the caliper lines and setting the torque wrench. 

[Photogirl]

22 hours ago, K.I.T.T. said:

Thank you. Have added some commentary below in blue - click the expand button.

This is IMO - and it is just that.

It's based on my own experiences of running two high (120k+ mile) 986s as semi-dailys since 2016, and having to do most, if not all the items on your shopping list at some point.

 

 

Thank you very much indeed for that excellent summary @K.I.T.T. - great information and helpful for any novices reading this thread.

Before addressing each point, I just want to say that the workshop has not in any way pressured me to do anything other than the essentials (that would be the MOT failure points). They did a full inspection on the car and noted a series of things I was already aware of. A couple of those things I do consider need doing. I asked for quotes on all of the things so that I could prepare for when they would get done or perhaps do one or two of them pre-emptively. Having phoned around other local independents it seems the prices are broadly similar throughout my region.

Since then, the workshop has reduced the prices on some of the things I raised because there were alternative parts or suppliers which had better pricing:

Front Shock Absorbers, Top Mounts, Bump stops and associated fittings - The mounts/bump stops are worn and the shock absorbers have corrosion on the shaft. That corrosion is not serious and they do not need changing at the moment, but probably will within the next couple of years. I was told that replacing the other parts (which are in fact quite corroded) would not be worth doing because the corroded shafts on the shocks would wear those parts fairly quickly. I was therefore advised to do these things together at some point in the near future, but does not need to be immediate

Replace Front Anti Roll Bar Links £336 inc VAT Pair (£240 inc VAT if done with Front Shock Absorbers ). Replace Rear Anti Roll Bar , bushes and links £659 inc VAT - these items are quite worn and do need doing. Thank you for the pointer about a preowned part in good condition

Replace PAS pipes on steering rack and hydraulic lines from joiner half way down the car (MOT issue). £1868 inc VAT - the pipes on the steering rack are quite corroded, the workshop quoted for new hydraulic lines as well because they are problematic - however they did say exactly what you said - can just be clipped. I'm wondering how long clipping them lasts?

Replace Coffin Arms (x3) £950 inc VAT - the price has been dropped to £720. I had two coffin arms replaced on the Cayman a couple of years back which cost about £600 – this was the same as other indis were quoting. I feel these need doing and have been on my list for a while

Additional cost to replace 6 ignition coils £400 inc VAT - this is been re-quoted at £200 using Beru parts. These do need doing as they are cracked

Remove engine to gain access , replace front sections of rear brake lines, replace rear sections of rear brake lines, replace hoses as required , refit and bleed system £2100 inc VAT - this was one of the MOT failures. I got a quote from another well-regarded local indi last year to just do the front to back brake pipes (not including the rears) and they quoted just under £1180. I'll ask about the Kunifer pipes

Cost to replace water pump £382 inc VAT - agree with your points. I asked for the quote more out of curiosity and partly because I had been encouraged in another thread to pre-emptively replace the water pump, but I’m not in a rush

With Engine removed additional cost to replace clutch £576 inc VAT - (has not failed, purely pre-emptive quote) - quotes I’ve had in the past to replace the clutch have been around 1K so I felt this might be an opportunity to get it done. The workshop were clear that the clutch probably has a lot of life left in it however I had complained of it being very heavy and hurting my knee, which is why I’m wondering about it. It does drive me mad these days even in light traffic. That said, it could be just as heavy after replacing it so I’m currently undecided on this one

With Engine removed additional cost to replace starter motor £360 - I asked for this quote more out of curiosity and to prepare if there was a problem. I say that because it’s been a bit noisy (albeit intermittent). The workshop felt it was fine and the noise was probably just because I haven’t been regularly driving the car. I'm not planning on doing it

With brake lines removed send calipers away for refurbishment, replace link pipes and fittings as required £1100 inc VAT set of 4 - This is purely vanity and I was curious about what the cost would be for a top notch job so asked for a quote. This is for the place they tend to use but they said they could take them off and send them to any place of my choice. Either way, it won’t be on this year’s list

 

[Photogirl]

18 hours ago, ½cwt said:

The final one on caliper refurb, I had mine done a BCS in Nottingham earlier this year, I supplied the new nipples and seals (about £35) but needed 3 new pistons due to pitting, complete strip paint and test £585 +VAT incl delivery.  I also fitted new caliper bolts which were about £50 too.  With the car already up on stands to remove and refit just the caliper (so 2 operations well under an hour including reconnecting the caliper lines and setting the torque wrench. 

I've been looking at the BCS site - I think that's the company my local indis use. 

[½cwt]

15 minutes ago, Photogirl said:

I've been looking at the BCS site - I think that's the company my local indis use. 

So go direct and don't pay their markup...  Just ask the indy to take the calipers off for you and send them in direct. 

[Photogirl]

On 7/22/2023 at 10:21 PM, ½cwt said:

The final one on caliper refurb, I had mine done a BCS in Nottingham earlier this year, I supplied the new nipples and seals (about £35) but needed 3 new pistons due to pitting, complete strip paint and test £585 +VAT incl delivery.  I also fitted new caliper bolts which were about £50 too.  With the car already up on stands to remove and refit just the caliper (so 2 operations well under an hour including reconnecting the caliper lines and setting the torque wrench. 

Very helpful - thank you. I can confirm that my calipers are due back from BCS on Monday! 

..... I can't believe I've finally done it, after mulling over the colour for literally years. I'll photograph them before I drop them back at the workshop.