Gramps

@½cwt@BBB@skoosh1970@sa utah Hi All. Thanks for input on this a short while ago. Just thought I'd update you that I found the issue. Turned out to be a not fully tightened oil filler cap 🙃. Who'd have thought?? I raised another post for the EML warning I had come up and it was suggested I check my AOS. I was advised to try and remove the oil filler cap with the engine running. So started the car and it was running really lumpy, which it was doing on start up from cold but would settle down after 10secs or so, went to the rear of the car, opened the boot and could hear a loud hissing sound??? It was coming from the oil filler cap. Gave it a 1/8th (?) turn more to fully tighten it and engine immediately ran smooth. Reset all my codes and no issues having driven it around giving it the occasional beans. Thanks again for your input all. 

On 4/6/2023 at 10:34 AM, iborguk said:

How’d you get on ?

@gillbe @Paul P Have taken it out a few times now, including today when I was able to gve it some beans and no EMLs etc so looks like now all ok 🙂 , other than the prolonged cranking when cold, but I can live with that. Might stick my lithium jump starter on it next time just to see if it makes a difference. Still not had any live figures re the HP fuel rail but @Richard Hamilton Richard's input was handy

1 hour ago, Richard Hamilton said:

All I can find about the high pressure system is from the Service Technik:

"The direct fuel injection (DFI) used in the new flat engines is based on homogeneous direct injection. In this process, electromechanically controlled fuel injectors inject the fuel directly into the combustion chamber at a pressure of approx. 580 to 1740 psi (40 to 120 bar) and with millisecond accuracy as required by the respective driving state."

I believe some of the HP pump faults are actually attributed to a faulty sensor.   Also, the LP sytem can cause HP fault codes.  LP pressures are 5 bar (igniton on, engine off), with a holding pressure of 4.0bar after 20 minutes ignition off.

@Richard Hamilton Thanks for your input Richard. That figure of 4 bar on the low pressure side (20mins after ignition off) ties in exactly with what I see on the high pressure side with the same criteria. The HPFP is mechanical so seems reasonable to assume that the high pressure side could drop to the same as the low pressure side once the engine has stopped. Highest HP figure I've seen is about 1100psi. I assume the highest figure would only be seen with foot  to the floormaximum acceleration, and there's no way I'm trying to look at that myself whilst giving it some beans. Will have to get someone to ride shotgun with me, or try videoing it.

I believe Porsche are onto version 6 of the HPFP now (9A1-110-315-02 now supreceded by the 06 version), so it appears they've been mod'g the HPFP along the way.

Strange how those HP figures are so evasive on the web, but at least the figures I'm seeing when running fall within the range you've quoted, though my when running LP figure is quite near the quoted LP figure, but I guess that figure can only be gained with the engine running.

Thanks again 👍🙂 

2 hours ago, iborguk said:

An active codes since you tightened the oil cap ? 

Took the car out for some errands this afternoon wouldn't normally but wanted to see just that. And nothing popped up. Car started well (always less cranks when warm) and ran smoothly. Need to get out over the next couple of days when the sun's out and give it some beans, then see where we are. But good so far 🙂

3 hours ago, gillbe said:

Re Are you getting any issues currently that makes you want to change them?

 

Only a feeling that car is running on a slightly uneven road surface at 30-35mph, when in fact the road is smooth.   This is on damp, rainy days.   Noticed the next day, with sunny weather and dry since the previous run, no such lumpiness.  So, that's what I'm hoping will go away with new coil packs.

Did not know about the live running OBDII section - always using the "Diagnostics" menu, thanks for that!

👍I find that if I go into the iCarsoft via Diagnostics menu it doesn't show me any fault codes though they are there???? But you can see the codes if you go in via the OBD11 option. If it sees any, and they are brand specific, it then asks you to drill down into make and model to find what the error is for. Not sure what version software you are running on your iCarsoft but I did post a short while ago to advise version 5 is now available to download.

Thanks again for your input...Rob

3 minutes ago, gillbe said:

Tried to get you these figures then when could not find the options on icarsoft realised probably not available as mine is the non DFI 2.9 987.2 !

Loosening my oil cap slightly also made it run like a dog.  Removing altogether was easy.

Re coils, was just fishing for some possible justification of the spend, as I have bought new whilst the old are still "sight unseen" , having done nearly 100K and can see never replaced from the extensive all-OPC records on my 13 year old model.  On their way from Autodoc via Evri, so expected any time next year...

 

Thanks for trying, much appreciated 👍. On my iCarsoft I went into OBD11, monitor overview, then scrolled down to live data. Once then you can just select the options you're interested in which makes things easier. But as you say if your's is not DFI then that option probably won't be there anyway? 

Strange how removing the oil filler cap can have that much of an effect on the smooth running. I think that part of the emissions controls means the engine is "vacuumed" so anything in there is spat out the rear. I remember not that long ago removing the oil filler caps with engine running just to check for any noise or sludge and the like, no doing that on these motors.

Yeh, still yet to see my coil packs, they may still be due for a change. Not seen anything my service history to say they've been changed at any stage. Cars now on 89k, so not far off yours. Are you getting any issues currently that makes youo want to change them?

3 hours ago, iborguk said:

How’d you get on ?

@iborguk @Paul P I tried it an hour or so ago with the engine cold having sat overnight. Checked fuel rail pressure with just ignition on and it was 66psi. Videoed the start and it seems to crank over about 4 times but once it fired it was no longer lumpy, having a cough and a splutter like it was, so that's good. Still cranked over a little more than i'd like but I don't know what the average number of cranks for others on the same car might be but some say once the HPFP was changed theirs was starting on the button. I videoed the screen of my iCarsoft during the start and you see the pressure rise to approx 1100psi on fast idle, about 1100rpm. Paul kindly sent me over some test material for the fuel pump  (thanks Paul) but having gone through it it only seems to relate to the low pressure pump in the tank, not the HPFP, but one item of note was that with ignition on but not running it quotes the pressure for the LPFP as 4 bar, which equates to 58psi, so close to what the HPFP reading is with ignition on. So there may be some relationship there in those pressures. Hopefully someone will come up with some good figures for their car so I can see where mine lies. But I'm a lot happier to be rid of that lumpy starting so thanks for the help from all. I can live with the longer cranking time, but would be nice to see if I can get it starting on the button, although if that means changing the HPFP at what seems to be nudging a grand I can live with it, for now anyway . 🙂

ps, I was going to "@" 1/2cwt but I can't seem to get the system to recognise him?

1 minute ago, iborguk said:

Nice.

Clear any active stored codes and see if they come back. 

 

I did clear them earlier but will go out and double check all clear and give it a go tomorrow. Will be weird if a "not fully tightened oil cap" was the cause of those starting issues as not something I'd ever have considered, but grateful if it was 🤣  Will post results tomorrow

36 minutes ago, iborguk said:

How'd the oil cap test go ? 

@iborguk Well, what do uo know?? started the engine and ticking over lumpy. Went to the boot to check the oil filler cap and could hear a hissing (vacuum leak). The oil cap was not fully tightened. Tightened it up, hissing went and engine no longer lumpy YAY! Came back inside feeling happy then realised I hadn't actually tested the cap removal, did so and it was easy to remove so presumeably the AOS is ok and the loose cap may at least be a cause of the lumpiness. Not sure about the prolonged cranking still. Will try again tomorrow when the engine is cold again. But a step in the right direction 🙂

28 minutes ago, iborguk said:

How'd the oil cap test go ? 

Ah. got wrapped up in checking the "from cold" figures, videoing start up and the like. Meant to do the oil cap test, will go back out and try now 🙃

Anyone out there got any figures for fuel pressure when cold prior to start, ie just ignition on then same figure once it's fired up? Be interesting to see how they compare with mine. went to start it from cold tonight and my fuel rail pressure was about 150psi with ignition on, when statrted it rose to about 1100psi at fast idle, about 1100 rpm, then dropped down to 660psi or so when the tickover dropped. I also had all 3 error codes appear again, banks 1 & 2 too lean and P1094 ( Implausible Mass Air Flow Ahead Of Throttle Valve)  

9 hours ago, gillbe said:

How about - Damp getting into cracked coil packs, causing long start then lumpiness until dried out.  Then ok until left long enough for damp to get in again?

No idea really, but having just bought a new set of packs for my 2.9, I’m hoping they will cure a slight lumpiness I feel initially on using the car after being left a few days…

Thanks for your input. My initial thought was maybe plugs/coil packs. Plugs were replaced just before  got the car so done about 12k, not sure if the coil packs have been changed at any stage. If the issue is still ongoing come some decent dry weather it may eliminate that possibility. But error codes seem to poin to a common problem affecting both banks (P0104 & P0107, banks 1 & 2  too lean) so fault would appear to be common to both sides, ie in the input side. But possiblity not rulled out 👍

6 hours ago, iborguk said:

Hi, OK so nothing logged re fuel pressure too low/high logged although I acknowledge you're saying others have not had anything logged re the HPFP.

Your rail value of 660 PSI equates to 45.5 bar. I don't know the expected value ranges there although someone with a working car might be able to compare for you.

 

Given the codes thrown and the engine hesitation to start I'm thinking vacuum leak.

I can see in your other MAF thread @Paul P mentioned AOS, which is a common faulting component, which can cause vacuum leaks.

One test for a failing AOS is the inability to easily remove the oil cap with the engine running.

 

👍thanks for your input. Not looked into AOS much yet but do they cause some smoking when they are failing? Not got any smoke, thankfully. I'll try the oil cap removal in the meantime. Re vacuum leak, I only get the issue starting from cold when the engine has rested for a few days. Could it be a case there should be some residual vacuum somewhere that loses over time? Cheers...Gramps

2 hours ago, iborguk said:

What were the actual error code  numbers thrown ?

Hi @iborguk, not had any codes that relate directly to the HPFP. From rooting around the forums it seems some don't get any codes at all and some do. I think the codes I've got so far were P0171 & P0174 (banks 1 & 2 lean), and P1094 which refers to the MAF. I've cleaned the MAF (as best I can) a couple of times and it hasn't made a great deal, if any, difference. I also don't see how the MAF would cause it to crank so much before starting, of it being very lumpy once it catches (when cold after standing a few days), whereas fuel pressure seems to make more sense??? Appreciate any advice.

Cheers

Gramps

Thanks to all for inputs so far. Does anyone have any running or ignition on only figures? 🙂

5 hours ago, The Caped Crusader said:

 

 

Sadly mine is a cold start issue after left standing for a few days 👍

4 hours ago, ½cwt said:

He is a mine of info and usually very willing to help.  I might be wrong but I think he likes the challenge of solving problems.

You're right. Richard has been there before for me re my PCM3 🙂

Hi All.

Further to one of my recent posts where if I left my my 987.2 Boxster S (2011) for a few days to a week it would crank for a long time then be very lumpy on starting I've tried cleaning the MAF  as suggested but I've still got the issue. 

The car will run fine once started and starts fine the next day, though it still takes quite a few cranks.

Having done futher googling I'm wondering if it may be the fuel pump.

I was getting error codes saying bank 1 and 2 lean, hence the MAF  was suspected, but could they also be due to a low fuel pressure.?

It seems early 987.2s had their pumps changed by Porsche, mines a 2011.

I looked at the live data using my iCarsoft and it was showing about 660PSI fuel rail pressure and 42% Fuel Level Input.

Can't seem to find what they should be.

Can anyone here throw any light on it?

Any advice more than welcome.

TIA

Gramps

On 3/4/2023 at 9:13 AM, BBB said:

In the owners manual (page 168) it says to have a 60cm gap between the top of the windscreen and the leading edge of the roof.

Thanks. Will have to get my tape measure out and see how that setting is 👍

Hi All. After battling trying to gain access to clean the MAF on my Boxster S 987.2, I was wondering, is there an optimum postion for the hood when in service mode? 

Do Porsche have a recomended position or is it trial and error?

Anyone learnt from experience?

TIA....Gramps

On 5/6/2022 at 2:38 PM, Jonttt said:

Yesturday I got the boxster out of storage, I can’t remember when I put it in there (I usually take a pic to remind myself) but I think it was end of October so c6 months ago. I checked the tyre pressures (I usually over inflate them slightly for storage) and they just needed capsized each. Took it off the trickle charger and it started first turn of the starter motor. Cars can be a little rough for a couple of minutes after 6 months storage but was as smooth as anything from initial idle…..massive bonus was I had a full tank of super unleaded, felt like I’d won the lottery 🤣

This morning the boxster passed its MOT with no advisories , I enjoyed a sausage and egg barm whilst waiting 😁

DVLA had updated straight away and so I was able to road tax as soon as I got home …..all set for the NW 991uk crew meet tomorrow….

The car was a little dusty from storage and I had not cleaned it before putting in there, with rain forecast all afternoon I managed to give it a bit of spit and polish in perfect overcast conditions…….given next door are in the middle of getting a new roof and dust everywhere I fitted the outdoor cover

 

 

Looks like my "White" Edition 🙃

14 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

I imagine it is one of those you need to get to exactly the right orientation to get in and out.

quite possibly, but I don't think would ever have found it, Lord knows I tried 🙂

2 hours ago, skoosh1970 said:

My mechanic didn't have to drop the engine ( i've just called him to enquire ) although he did say that it's tight but be patient.

@½cwt@BBB@Paul P@skoosh1970@sa utah , I tried it every which way. With everything in situ I don't know how it can come straight out. As you can see from the pics there is some pipework which you could release, and a connector for something or other just left lower of the rubber sleeve. They could possibly be removed/pulled out the way to create a tad more leaway. Another option may be to remove the air filter box then slip it out that way. But as the sensor itself is not really accessible as it's in the middle of it's integral housing there probably isn't much to be gained from the full removal of the MAF anyway and easiest option is just to turn it every which way and squirt everything in sight, which is what I've done. I've stuck it back together using some food grade silicon grease on the rubber seals. Started it up and management light came on. Couldn't find any codes using my icarsoft v.02. Popped down the supermarket stopped and started again but still there. But after coming back to the car no light. Took it for a spin, gave it some beans, and all good so far. Tickover seems ok now? Maybe it's done some good? Will suck it and see. As an aside I took it for a spin with the engine cover off, you hear a few more noises that way but didn't notice anything untoward. Thanks all for your input 👍

5 hours ago, Paul P said:

This might help ( factory doc for removal and reinstall MAF on 987.2 - including the wiring connector - which apparently has a fuse built into it!) 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/127gewPeT2FZR9jTt8O2-Iy1G-h3lpB2u/view?usp=sharing

Ping me a message if you cant access the link....

Thanks for that Paul, I was able to access it ok. If only it was that easy 🙂. Just about to go and carry on with it now. At least it's given me a clue on how to release the wiring. I wondered what the yellow bit was on the connector, seems it's the fuse and you have to remove that then press the tab to release the connector. But I think you need to take the sec tion where it says just "lift it out" with a pinch of salt. If the engine cover tab wasn't in the way maybe, but everything I've googled says they've had to drop the engine a tad or just turned it around in situ.

10 hours ago, ½cwt said:

Something in that box of tricks should do it. I'd be looking at the third row, T20 maybe.

@½cwt@BBB@Paul P@skoosh1970@sa utah , and the answer is??? None of them. The MAF on the 987.2 is integral with its housing and hence just held in place with a large Jubillee clip one side. which merely require a 7mm hex bit, and a couple of easily released spring clips on the other (similar to air bob clips on some vehicles. The problem is you can't get it out once detached from the connections either side. From further googling it appears some have dropped the engine by 15mm or so and withdrawn it from underneath. Others have just given it a good squirt of cleaner once released from its connections either side, which is what I've tried to do this afternoon. sadly ran out of daylight so will continue tomorrow. Here are a few pics. Thanks for your replies hereto.

Initially I thought it was the large metallic just to the right of the 3 small bore pipes

This the connector to it, if anyone can tell me how to remove the plug for any future reason it'd be appreciated.

If anyone can tell me how to get this coneector off without using extreme measures I'd appreciate it

Once disconnected either side it's impossible to extract from the engine bay from above, apparently some have dropped the engine slightly and dropped it out from underneath.

This the the air filter facing side, notice the large grate cover.

and this the engine facing side

and this is the engine facing side.

I've given it all a good squirt of cleaing this evening and will likely give it all another good squirt tomorrow