Greenman Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, ragpicker said: Rotten luck OP.. I hope you get something out of Porsche but I can't see how it has anything to do with them. The car is out of warranty and a wear and tear item which they do not manufacture has failed leading to engine damage. If I made expensive ornaments and someone bought one from me, then the shelf they put it on dropped and the ornament smashed, I wouldn't want to replace the ornament for free due to failure of the shelving bracket 🤷♂️ Genuinely hope I'm wrong though 👍🏻 Humm, not really the right analogy at all! The failed spark plug was supplied and fitted by Porsche, they decided to use that particular manufacturer and model of plug and they installed it, your contract is with Porsche, they assume responsibility for all the parts they put on the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragpicker Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Greenman said: Humm, not really the right analogy at all! The failed spark plug was supplied and fitted by Porsche, they decided to use that particular manufacturer and model of plug and they installed it, your contract is with Porsche, they assume responsibility for all the parts they put on the car. Fair enough. As I said, I genuinely hope the OP gets something out of them. My analogy may well be off the mark but wear and tear items aren't usually covered by warranty, nor the damage that their failure causes. There's lots of ways they can wriggle out of it without too much effort IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcarrera Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Thanks for the replies and the commiserations! There have been no noticeable symptoms and I haven't noticed any increase in oil usage (or any smoke!). The dealer has already looked at it with a scope which is (presumably) how they know that the errant bit has impacted into the top of the piston and there's some bore scoring. The plan is to drop the engine out next so they can take a closer look. This is the first major service where plugs are changed so they would have been in there since new which is why I think I may have a case. I'm the second owner but the first was Porsche GB! FMDSH obviously. They can't look at it for a few days but I'll keep you posted when there's an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMA Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 8 hours ago, drcarrera said: bit of a shocker the hear that they have found some serious engine damage! I'm not 100% sure of the details, but I think the contacts on one of the spark plugs has broken off - damaging the top of the piston and scoring the cylinder. If that's their assessment, then I guess they have already borescoped the cylinder to know it's scored? I think I'd be asking for their assessment in writing and details of their opinion of cause. And then I would be asking them to take the case to Porsche GB for me. Assuming you have a full OPC service history? This might make some interesting reading https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car especially this part: "In fact, you’re legally allowed to return it up to six years after you bought it (in Scotland, it’s five years after you first realised there was a problem). But it gets more difficult to prove a fault and not normal wear and tear is the cause of any problem." Good luck and keep us all updated on your progress, keep everything noted in writing with dates and times in case you need to refer back to it later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz05 Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Porsche GB experience day car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Sorry to hear this, as stated above, not heard of anything like this before and quite puzzling that you haven’t noticed anything different with how the car is running. I’d like to think that Porsche GB would get involved in a case like this. Fingers crossed that it gets sorted for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV8 Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, drcarrera said: The plan is to drop the engine out next so they can take a closer look. Sorry to hear your news. Has there been any discussion about charges for this investigative work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer250 Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Sorry to hear this. Would a diagnostic print out out via their laptop link to the cars on board systems provide any feedback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Mac Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Hi @drcarrera sorry to hear this, I hope they sort it. OE plugs that failed - have to be on a good footing there. Out of interest when I first got my very cheap shed of a sprintday car (Toyota Celica 190) when I removed the (barely tight!) plugs one had a ground electrode missing... Just to say that weirdly there was no perceivable difference in performance with the damage plug... / even compared to the new (denso) plugs. Think I was lucky in my case that the broke part disappeared down the exhaust... Still going strong 2000 miles later / after several sprint days & constant hammering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIkeyv60 Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 3 hours ago, daz05 said: Porsche GB experience day car? Why would that make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Wow. This sucks. Just a thought. Before the dealer starts incurring more costs (engine removal and investigation ) wouldn’t it be prudent to have the discussion on who is footing the bill for the work ? Not denying it’s got to be done but I feel you are more likely to get a satisfactory result re goodwill if you begin the discussions before there is s £££ bill already outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usman10316 Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Its the Consumer Rights Act 2015 that you would be looking into, more or less the same as the sales of goods act but is updated slightly. It still covers issues such as satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and must be as described. OPC would most likely want to argue that it is "wear and tear" or such, best is to try getting a second opinion on the car (from a Porsche indie/engineer), as you need to establish that the fault was there at the time of purchase. Good luck with it, I hope it works out well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIkeyv60 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Never had any luck for the fit for purpose part of the sale of goods act, had a £600 tv fail after 14 months, no one interested unless i took them to court at great expense with a slim chance of winning, then if i did a fight to get costs back! They have all sorts of get out clauses and all the time its costing you money which you are unlikely to get back Fingers crossed for you.Maybe as no issues were felt by you put a new plug in and move the car on ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broxie Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 3 hours ago, MIkeyv60 said: Never had any luck for the fit for purpose part of the sale of goods act, had a £600 tv fail after 14 months, no one interested unless i took them to court at great expense with a slim chance of winning, then if i did a fight to get costs back Have you heard of the government scheme called "Money Claim Online (MCOL)", used to be known as the small claims court. The fee for a £500-£1,000 claim is £60. You'd have no other costs apart from that for preparing your case. It doesn't need a solicitor etc so you'd not be open to other costs other than fairly minor stuff if you lost. I would have certainly punted £60 to get the TV refunded or replaced. I've used the scheme a few times with great success. Big business hardly ever get as far as the hearing, it usually costs them more than the claim is worth but by submitting a claim, it shows you have teeth. https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcarrera Posted June 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 To respond to a few points It's definitely not an ex-experience car! Hopefully it won't come to using MCOL but if it does, I'll certainly have to stump up more than £60 as I'm fairly sure the total bill may come in a tad more than £1K! But it's very early days yet so not something I need to consider atm. I'm fairly comfortable with them doing a bit more investigation work up front as they really need to have all the facts spot on to take to Porsche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIkeyv60 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 17 hours ago, Greenman said: Humm, not really the right analogy at all! The failed spark plug was supplied and fitted by Porsche, they decided to use that particular manufacturer and model of plug and they installed it, your contract is with Porsche, they assume responsibility for all the parts they on the car. What contract do you have with them . No lifetime guarantee of the part. Its not in warranty neither is the car . All you are hoping for is a goodwill gesture they are under no obligation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz05 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 15 hours ago, MIkeyv60 said: Why would that make a difference? Not likely to have helped the situation but i was asking because the 1st owner was Porsche GB and from a PR perspective it may help prompt some goodwill if it was sold through the network. Sounds like the dealer is working with you and not against you that will count for a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araf Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 18 hours ago, drcarrera said: Thanks for the replies and the commiserations! There have been no noticeable symptoms and I haven't noticed any increase in oil usage (or any smoke!). The dealer has already looked at it with a scope which is (presumably) how they know that the errant bit has impacted into the top of the piston and there's some bore scoring. The plan is to drop the engine out next so they can take a closer look. This is the first major service where plugs are changed so they would have been in there since new which is why I think I may have a case. I'm the second owner but the first was Porsche GB! FMDSH obviously. They can't look at it for a few days but I'll keep you posted when there's an update. So, a Porsche car, bought from Porsche and being worked on by Porsche at the moment? If so, there's a good chance that you will at least get a contribution from Porsche, who will pass their uninsured costs to their spark plug supplier. Keep us informed, however painful for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Days Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Sorry to hear this. I'd expect PGB to assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIkeyv60 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 hour ago, daz05 said: Not likely to have helped the situation but i was asking because the 1st owner was Porsche GB and from a PR perspective it may help prompt some goodwill if it was sold through the network. Sounds like the dealer is working with you and not against you that will count for a lot. They are highly maintained warmed up correctly and arent even at 60% capacity when driving around the track.you cant over rev them . The fastest i went was a ton down the back straight. Id be more worried about a car that had been used on the track tbh then still within its capabilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenman Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 7 hours ago, MIkeyv60 said: What contract do you have with them . No lifetime guarantee of the part. Its not in warranty neither is the car . All you are hoping for is a goodwill gesture they are under no obligation That comment when actually used in context was about whether Porsche are responsible for a failed part that they didn’t produce. When you buy a new car from Porsche they provide a 3 year warranty on all the parts no matter who the actual manufacturer, so the fact the spark plug is made by Bosch or NGK makes no difference. Obviously in this case the car is now out of Warranty, but this is clearly a failure not a wear or lack of maintenance issue, so my point is that I would expect Porsche to look sympathetically on this rather than just say ‘not our part, not our problem’ but yes I agree there may be no obligation, though as stated above there may be legal avenues under the consumer rights Act for a low mileage, well maintained, four year old car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz05 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 4 hours ago, MIkeyv60 said: They are highly maintained warmed up correctly and arent even at 60% capacity when driving around the track.you cant over rev them . The fastest i went was a ton down the back straight. Id be more worried about a car that had been used on the track tbh then still within its capabilities Still chances are its been subjected to more wear than a regular car I wouldn't touch one. What happens to them when the customers go home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIkeyv60 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, daz05 said: Still chances are its been subjected to more wear than a regular car I wouldn't touch one. What happens to them when the customers go home... Tbh youd never know.They get through a few as they keep the mileage very low . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorsh Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 I'd expect PGB to cover the cost as the plugs aren't supposed to be touched until 4 year service, therefore they can't say it's lack of maintenance - spark plugs are wear and tear items, but supposed to last four years/60k miles and even then not fall apart. Definitely a failure Porsche should take responsibility for. Good luck @drcarrera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazbot Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 A spark plug falling apart is not wear and tear, it's a component failure. I would get the dealer to confirm to you that they will report to PGB with a view to getting them to cover. As for the part being made by someone else the fact is most of the components will be made by some other company as suppliers to Porsche. Keep records of everything including getting the dealer to email anything they tell you by telephone. As others have said consumer rights are the key if things get tetchy with PGB. Good luck and update us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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