chrishak Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 12 hours ago, Shazbot said: A spark plug falling apart is not wear and tear, it's a component failure. I would get the dealer to confirm to you that they will report to PGB with a view to getting them to cover. As for the part being made by someone else the fact is most of the components will be made by some other company as suppliers to Porsche. As others have said consumer rights are the key if things get tetchy with PGB This⬆️ Wear and tear is the electrodes eroding over time causing the spark to break down, thus requiring plug replacement. An electrode breaking off is a manufacturing fault leading to a catastrophic failure and the potential destruction of a £25k engine. Whoever the original manufacturer of the plug was, Porsche fitted them so they are immediately responsible - your claim is with them, not the plug supplier, that is Porsche's problem. I don't think Porsche have a leg to stand on, but good luck anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcarrera Posted July 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 OK, after the best part of a month, here's an update. Having investigated further it was confirmed a new short engine is required. The retail cost of this is around £13K but the dealer agreed to do it at cost as I'm a loyal customer, which brings the price down to around £9.5K. As I'm a long-standing Porsche customer (this is my sixth Porsche, all from OPCs) Porsche have agreed to provide a contribution as a good will gesture of... £1200! i.e. less than 10% of the retail cost. Needless to say I'm not happy with that so am taking legal advice. Meanwhile, the dealer is trying to press Porsche for a better contribution. The one thing that has made this bearable so far is that the dealer has let me keep hold of the loan car (718 Boxster) which was originally booked for me for two days so at least this good weather hasn't been entirely wasted car-wise! Attached are some photos of the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaregs Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 IMO you should not be paying a penny towards this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike597 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, Scubaregs said: IMO you should not be paying a penny towards this. I agree. Sadly its not our opinion that counts its porsche's. I'd be getting legal advice for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz05 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 That's not a good outcome, but i give credit to your OPC for being supportive and providing a loaner. Hopefully, as this progresses through the levels of their customer services team a better outcome will be found as their response isn't very logical. An email to their management in the UK and or German would be worth while in my opinion also, there must be email addresses online somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason986S Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 When the piston rings failed in my wifes a4 (dreaded 1.8T tfsi engines), we only footed 10% and Audi UK paid the rest of the £7.5k engine rebuild. That was at 65k miles ish and the car 8 years old. It was a known defect of the engine during a certain manufacturing period, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcarrera Posted July 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Unfortunately from a legal perspective I have to pursue the supplying dealer rather than Porsche GB so personally I can't really put any further pressure on Porsche, although the dealer can, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMA Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 I have heard in the past people raising a complaint with PorscheGB customer services direct and having some joy though that process. So might be worth getting the email address for that and dropping them a complaint. No harm in trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbie Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Have they explained why the electrodes have just fallen off the spark plug into the cylinder? Seems an open and shut case of a faulty product unless they can come up with some other failure mechanism. Will be interesting to see what your legal advice says. Very surprised they've been so stingy on the goodwill for such a good customer. Hope you get some better news soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTSMarky Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Not good news at all & my car which is also a 981 GTS is a similar age albeit less mileage - such stories do concern me. You're doing the right think by working with your dealer and the poor response from Porsche GB you may have to deal with once the dealer says they've done all they can, but be prepared for a fight probably. What's the head like? This was picked up with a scope as you mentioned nothing noticeable when driving or engine running. Looks like the 'damage' is out of the ring/bore contact area (although there are two small pits that are in the picture - are they related to the issue as I'd expect bore score not pits like that) so you could actually replace the piston (or smooth out the damaged areas) and re-assemble if the head/valves are all OK. I've pulled bike engines apart that looked horrific but change the bits you need to and away you go. If you do try this option there is a chance Porsche will say that they don't want to do anything other than change the whole short engine due to not knowing where the electrodes are now in the engine.. Check if they're in the sump oil/filter/magnets etc. This could of happened any time in the past 4 years remember. So if you get no joy from PGB I reckon talk about only replacing the damaged items only if it looks like you're footing the bill. Dealer pulled it apart without your approval I guess, so they need to put it back together too if you say so - pop the new bits in and away you go. ..a few bb's in the loaner when it goes back might make you feel better too... Hope you get a sensible resolution, but do remember it was running just fine so could continue to do so for the future too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
map Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 @drcarrera - saw your original post and have been following. Am pretty appalled by both Porsche GB and dealer responses. No doubt there are all sorts of clauses they can point to which means their goodwill gesture is presented as being over and above their liability. By all means go to war but remember the cost of litigation will soon outweigh the remedial price. One thing that does strike me about this is the readiness with which they're advocating a replacement short engine. This has happened on one cylinder and the engine showed no signs of trouble - so I'd be more inclined to check for debris in the areas mentioned, validate that the valves and their seats are all OK then clean up the affected piston and bore before zipping the engine up again. That said I reckon you could have the engine fully stripped and rebuilt by a decent indie for less than the dealership is going to charge you for the short engine - you'll keep "matching numbers" and probably be in a better place. All the best for whatever route you opt for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Laming Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Hi, I take it your car is a PDK gearbox model and not a manual? I have worked on racing motorcycle engines on and off since the mid eighties, both two and four stroke. The only time we had a spark plug issue was with one of our Honda CBR600RR motors. Basically the plug would break in the middle, so when you turned the plug upside down, the gap would increase and then return to normal when turned upright again. This was on a tuned engine, power increased from 116bhp to 128bhp (measured on same dyno). A harmonic issue was diagnosed. Something in the "tune" was causing the plugs to destroy themselves (happened to our team mate as well). Plugs were sent back to ND for analysis, but they said the crush washers, when measured, showed 77 ft pound torque had been used to tighten them up. This was not the case as a plug (in that engine) will snap at 23 ft pound using a torque wrench and the cylinder head on a bench. Can the Porsche dealer check the ECU for over revs ? In a manual car/bike you can "over rev" on a downshift. I have no experience of a PDK gearbox if it allows you ( in sport mode) to change down too many gears, or like a normal auto, simply wont let the lower gear be engaged until the engine/road speed slows down. Good luck with your problem, but I believe PCGB should sort this out for you and request the whole motor back, so they can anylise what has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIkeyv60 Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 I can understand one tang breaking off but 2? I would look at an indie rebuilding it. Just need to find the broken bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcarrera Posted July 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 OK, a further update and it's good news! The servicing dealer (who has been superb throughout) continued to press PGB and they've now agreed to cover the entire cost. So I won't need to pay a penny. In fact, I'll actually save a bit as the air-con condenser needed replacing but the draining down of the system will now be covered by the engine replacement! So, hopefully a good outcome but obviously I'll reserve judgement until I've actually got the car back, which should be in a week or so, parts arrival depending. In the meantime, I've still got the loaner 718. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm E Box Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Good news. Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolfgjp Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Excellent news and nice to see that Porsche didn’t let you down in the end 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike597 Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Great news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV8 Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Very pleased for you that it ended like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart21UK Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 very good news, well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 What a relief. Well done.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Hang on New condenser already but just the one side? Presume the GTS was 2014 right or is this an earlier car? Was it damaged by a stone or rotten from leaves etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
map Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 This is great news. Very pleased for you and glad that the dealer stepped up. Please make sure you’re clear on the warranty provided on the replacement engine and associated work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red rocket Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Have been following this thread and pleased to hear the dealer/PGB have come through for you! Must be a big relief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zagamuffin Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Great result and the only outcome you’d really expect from Porsche , just hoping I’ll be treated similarly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffy3074 Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Great result! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.