Why does the 987 do nothing for me?

[edc]

37 minutes ago, r1flyguy said:

So if you really wanted a 981 Boxster but you could only afford a 986 and it was suitable What would you do???

I'm on my 2nd 986. If I really wanted to and was perhaps a bit reckless with money I could get a 981 Spyder but happy enough to stick with a 986. The only other Boxster that really appeals is the 987 Spyder. I can afford one of those too but at that price point I'd possibly get an Exige V6. 

I can see why the appeal of supposedly upgrading and getting a newer car isn't all that. A bit of a generalisation but as each generation goes by you lose some of the intangible stuff. 

Before the 981 everybody argued the 987 was better, more modern, nicer interior, better nav and tech etc etc. Nobody really talked about a better feeling or driving car as such. The 987 is just old like a 986 now. The 981 has a very different styling ethos and is generally much more aggressive looking. 

For the same sorts of reasons I generally dislike modern cars as the styling tends to be a bit too overt for me. It's one of the reasons I bought a C55 AMG rather than a C63. 

986 to 987 to 981 the reports often state how much more useable, liveable, comfortable etc they are over the previous car. All very good traits but completely irrelevant to many like me. 

[edc]

Whilst it's not a bona fide classic, I'd describe the view that a 986 is better than a 987 as in the same sort of place why people like classics or air cooled if we are talking Porsche. 

[Ol' Shatterhand]

Each to his own. The 987 looks a bit fat to my eyes and its headlights look softer and a bit... cross-eyed (some say they resemble the Carrera GT clusters, but I don't see it. They are round at the top and square at the bottom and their design always bothered me, as did the side intakes). And the interior ambiance has a bit of Cayenne chintz about it. Does it really drive better than a sympathetically upgraded 986 S? Maybe it depends on whether you prefer variable ratio steering.

I'm not a fan of the 981's chiselled front treatment, or the idea of 1st gen EPAS, but the I like the rest of that car.

I really quite like the 718 (982), I don't mind the 4 pot engine (people who think this means it's "not a real Porsche" really don't understand the brand), though I do prefer the rear spoiler of the 981. The only thing I would change on the 718, except the noise and the gearing maybe, is the sharp creases on the front fenders: They should be smooth like they were on on 9x6 and 9x7 cars. When you look down the bonnet from the driver's seat, it should be like looking down a lady's cleavage.

So, the 986. With the extended leather option, the cockpit reminds me of a Cessna 152, dated to the point of timelessness now (and the 987 infotainment is just as obsolete and less easily upgradable... ). OK, the door pocket lids and centre console plastics are scratchy, but this can be remedied with the help of a good upholsterer, or even some spray paint and a coat of lacquer. I love the fried egg lights too. The whole thing looks purer than a 987 and has a clear connection to the 1993 concept car, which had retro pastiche elements from the 550 and 718 RSK cars, and the first iteration of those swoopy headlights (they were well received in 1993. I don't remember anyone moaning in 1996 either. The hate only started in 1998 when the 996 came out, but I think that car looks fantastic and I would much prefer a rear wheel drive manual 996.1 coupe to a 987. Except if it's a Cayman S, maybe).

I can clearly see how the 987 evolved from the 986 (just like the 997 evolved more successfully from the 996), but without the 986 link, it is hard to see the essence of the 1993 concept in the 987.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Ol' Shatterhand
Typos

[½cwt]

2 hours ago, brillomaster said:

Having only owned a 986, i actually think i prefer the looks of the 987 over the 981 and 718. Just think it looks more porsche somehow. 

But a 986 is nice too, will enjoy running that a couple of years then maybe go to a 987. Doubt id get anything newer than a 987 though.

Similar thoughts on the 987 exterior design however its interior is of its period, but IMO the 986 is actually quite dated internally and externally too but due to being the first of the kind and more simple with fewer electronics (on earlier ones, particularly my poverty spec S) it possibly show less in that things are missing rather than there but way out of date.

I have driven a 987 and enjoyed it and had I bought one instead of a 986 then I'm sure I'd like and enjoy it as much as I do the 986.  If I only had the budget and friens who own 981 and 718 to sample them for a broader view!

[bally4563]

It’s simply known as progression , case rested !

[Ol' Shatterhand]

22 minutes ago, bally4563 said:

It’s simply known as progression , case rested !

Try telling that to the air-cooled cork sniffers.

Let me put it this way: I will always prefer a Ferrari BB to a Testarossa, a 308 GTB to a 328, a Countach LP400 to the later cars with wings and flares, an Esprit S1 to the turbo Giugiaros and Peter Stevens cars.

But then again I prefer a 996.1 to a 993. Go figure... 

[Billzeebub]

I have only ever owned 986s. I think they feel more analogue and old Porsche than the 987. I do prefer the 987 headlights and front end look, but most other things I prefer a good 986. The interior of the 986 (although snugger than 987) feels more Porsche to me with the way it is laid out. Also there is the possibility to delete the lower centre console making it even more 'old school porsche' feeling. I have deleted the console on many of my 986s which increases leg room and gives the cool stripped out/weight saving GT3 911 look. I also am edging towards preferring 986.1 to the facelift 986.2. I feel the fried-egg ambers are just looking so right these days as it places the car in classic status. Finding a good original early car for me is the perfect 986 now. There are compromises as a daily driver over the facelift 986, but this is part of the appeal for me. The plastic rear screen just means that engine and mechanical noise is a little more audible and the smaller 17" wheels make the car ride so sweetly. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Billzeebub

[Ol' Shatterhand]

47 minutes ago, Billzeebub said:

I have only ever owned 986s. I think they feel more analogue and old Porsche than the 987. I do prefer the 987 headlights and front end look, but most other things I prefer a good 986. The interior of the 986 (although snugger than 987) feels more Porsche to me with the way it is laid out. Also there is the possibility to delete the lower centre console making it even more 'old school porsche' feeling. I have deleted the console on many of my 986s which increases leg room and gives the cool stripped out/weight saving GT3 911 look. I also am edging towards preferring 986.1 to the facelift 986.2. I feel the fried-egg ambers are just looking so right these days as it places the car in classic status. Finding a good original early car for me is the perfect 986 now. There are compromises as a daily driver over the facelift 986, but this is part of the appeal for me. The plastic rear screen just means that engine and mechanical noise is a little more audible and the smaller 17" wheels make the car ride so sweetly. 

I think they ruined the looks of the 986 with the facelift front bumper and air intake re-design. Much as they ruined the 996's looks when they re-designed the headlights for 996.2 and turbo cars.

I can think of very few succesful facelifts. A facelifted Mk3 VW Polo does indeed look better than the pre-facelift car. The new GR86 looks much better than the GT86 and of course it finally has the engine it deserves. A 512TR looks marginally better than a Testarossa (but let's forget about the 512M). Anything looks better than the original Panamera. I think I'm out of examples. 

[Menoporsche]

Cayenne  

[Daboy3000]

I am confused as to why so many of you think that looking more modern equals better.  To my eyes the interior of the 987 looks dated, like a 2000's Ford.

The 986/996 headlights just seems to be ageing so well, when I look at the 987 or even going back to the 993, they just don't fit the body right.  Not like the round ones did on the 964 and earlier.  That was one of the main reasons why that gen got so much hate for it's lights.

 

Another thing is saying the 987 drives better, so?  This is purely a question of looks and what Porsche did to either make people like it more or less.

What is it about the 986 that just hits my spot?  Maybe it's because I love the 996 so much and the 987 looks nothing like it, where as the 986 has the same front.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Daboy3000

[Daboy3000]

1 hour ago, Ol' Shatterhand said:

A facelifted Mk3 VW Polo does indeed look better than the pre-facelift car. 

I don't think the mk3 was facelifted was it, I was a VW salesman during that period and I don't remember it, sure you don't mean the mk4?

I had a few company mk3 Polo GTI's, they were cracking, as was the Lupo GTi.

[r1flyguy]

10 minutes ago, Daboy3000 said:

I am confused as to why so many of you think that looking more modern equals better. 

Please go to p*ssedonheads and state this, there are many, MANY a keyboard warrior that will chastise you, you bad man.

(Nearly) every new iteration of a vehicle model is ‘better’. It doesn't matter in what context but if its not then the producer has obviously wasted millions in research, design, implementation....

Personal view, wants, needs and ownership gives us a perception thats sometimes difficult to see through.

 

[jonogt6]

19 minutes ago, Daboy3000 said:

I am confused as to why so many of you think that looking more modern equals better.  To my eyes the interior of the 987 looks dated, like a 2000's Ford.

The 986/996 headlights just seems to be ageing so well, when I look at the 987 or even going back to the 993, they just don't fit the body right.  Not like the round ones did on the 964 and earlier.  That was one of the main reasons why that gen got so much hate for it's lights.

 

Another thing is saying the 987 drives better, so?  This is purely a question of looks and what Porsche did to either make people like it more or less.

What is it about the 986 that just hits my spot?  Maybe it's because I love the 996 so much and the 987 looks nothing like it, where as the 986 has the same front.

I'm completely with you about the lights. I think the 986 shaped lights are superb regardless of whether they're clear or Amber. I've never understood why there's such a dislike for them.

People are highly unimaginative when it comes to design though, hence why most cars are now varying shades of metallic grey. Of course car manufacturers won't complain...carbon pigment reduces their paint costs significantly against over other pigment bases.

Edited February 6, 2022 by jonogt6

[jonogt6]

1 minute ago, r1flyguy said:

Please go to p*ssedonheads and state this, there are many, MANY a keyboard warrior that will chastise you, you bad man.

(Nearly) every new iteration of a vehicle model is ‘better’. It doesn't matter in what context but if its not then the producer has obviously wasted millions in research, design, implementation....

Personal view, wants, needs and ownership gives us a perception thats sometimes difficult to see through.

 

Very true, Ford has got it wrong on several occasions though, although probably caused by paring costs to the absolute minimum.

[Little Silver]

I came from an air cooled 911 into Boxster ownership, I looked at all the different Boxster types and could have bought any of them but the 986 in launch colours really sold it for me. I wasn’t into balls out acceleration or the latest design but the relative simplicity of the 986 appealed to me also there was a bit of nostalgia coming into play with the red interior as I remember all of those classic 50s cars which had lovely red leather. Coming from an older 911 the 986 was just modern enough, it’s the sports car I should have bought in 1999 when mine was made.

[the baron]

I’m in agreement with the OP, love the purity and now classic looks of the early 986 with ambers, the rest of the Boxster line doesn’t really interest me. Yes I have driven all the subsequent Boxsters and yes they have each improved on the previous model, but as far as looks and raw analogue driving it’s the early and original 986 for me.

[Ol' Shatterhand]

37 minutes ago, Daboy3000 said:

I don't think the mk3 was facelifted was it, I was a VW salesman during that period and I don't remember it, sure you don't mean the mk4?

I had a few company mk3 Polo GTI's, they were cracking, as was the Lupo GTi.

I mean the 1999-2002 Mk3 Phase 2, also known as the 6N2. A vast improvement over the pre-1999 cars. I used to own a 3-door one that was registered in November 2001 and I loved it, especially because of the way it looked and the clever boat-tailing around the rear hatch area. Went from that to my Boxster which was registered in October 2001.

With rare expections, I just don't like most of the newer trends in car design, bike design, or popular music...

[edc]

40 minutes ago, the baron said:

I’m in agreement with the OP, love the purity and now classic looks of the early 986 with ambers, the rest of the Boxster line doesn’t really interest me. Yes I have driven all the subsequent Boxsters and yes they have each improved on the previous model, but as far as looks and raw analogue driving it’s the early and original 986 for me.

Isn't this the point? Of course the newer car is better by score when talking to their focus groups and market sales projections. But, people value and weight different things and aspects of the respective cars differently. 

[the baron]

Just now, edc said:

Isn't this the point? Of course the newer car is better by score when talking to their focus groups and market sales projections. But, people value and weight different things and aspects of the respective cars differently. 

Absolutely 👍

[Downsey]

I have a facelift 986 S, but would change it for a 987 s, preferably 3.4 if I had the opportunity to and the wife would let me spend more

[½cwt]

The 986 will most likely always have a stronger 'classic' status than the 987 simply because it was first of it's type.  Escort, Cortina, Impreza, E-type, Lotus Esprit, MX5, MR2 and many many others too numerous to list.  They reflect the design/engineering zeitgeist at the time and in the case of the Boxster it is so close in design to the 996 it makes a pair of two cars that moved Porsche from niche to volume production sports cars.  Are the later cars better?  Almost certainly.  Few manufacturers take a backward step.

Beyond the above still lies personal preference, needs, skills to maintain or access to specialists, availability of parts, or even simply finances when it comes to accessing ownership.

Am I happy with my 986, yes but mostly because it was all I could afford to buy and run when I made the purchase.  If I'd have £5k more It might have been a 987 I bought, had I had£15k more I wouldn't have a Porsche, or any other car, I'd have paid a chunk more off the mortgage.... 

[the baron]

9 hours ago, ½cwt said:

 

Am I happy with my 986, yes but mostly because it was all I could afford to buy and run when I made the purchase.  If I'd have £5k more It might have been a 987 I bought, had I had£15k more I wouldn't have a Porsche, or any other car, I'd have paid a chunk more off the mortgage.... 

If using non man maths you will probably find you have spent close to the £15k you mention for the car and various upgrades, using man maths it’s as you say.

[½cwt]

9 hours ago, the baron said:

If using non man maths you will probably find you have spent close to the £15k you mention for the car and various upgrades, using man maths it’s as you say.

It is actually only about £9.5k excluding annual servicing, insurance and VED as I've managed to spend very little on labour!  Man maths keeps required annual items out of the sum, but even that is only another £2k over 3½ years, so £11k.  And a lot more enjoyment than paying down the mortgage!

Edited February 7, 2022 by ½cwt

[Simon]

I ordered a 987 when I had my 986.2 but cancelled as I didn’t like the look of it.

It was the contrasting, more angular side vents that I didn’t like.  The interior was of its time but hasn’t aged well IMHO.

The side vents on the 981 are beautifully designed with the crease along the door somewhat replicating the Carerra GT.

S

[Mattman42]

Seems a few posters are insisting on damning one or the other - depending on which you have is of course going to determine which side you fall here - end of the day it doesn't matter - everyone has their own preferences - saying one interior is better than another is purely subjective rather than accurate, one version of headlight is better looking that the other is all pointless and just going to cause an unwanted argument.

Side profile, there really isn't a huge amount of difference and probably 95% outside of this forum or non-petrolhead won't really know the difference or care - they see the Porsche badge and judge from there - most people don't even know how old a car is from a number plate these days - I wonder if I'm one of the few that remembers that a V reg car is either 1999 or 1979 depending which end the letter is!