PDK weirdness?

[cozzykim]

I only took delivery of my PDK 981S a couple of weeks ago, so maybe I'm just not used to the PDK yet but:

I've had a couple of weird (unexpected) behaviours from it.

The first one was when it seemed to drop into 1st at too high revs. I don't think it over revved but I was doing about 40mph and, either I inadvertently dropped it down via the '-' paddle when downshifting or there was a double signal sent by the paddle, maybe?

The second one was yesterday: I set off from a rural junction onto a busy slight uphill main road. I booted it, as I was trying to match the traffic flow, and it revved really high in 1st gear and didn't seem to want to shift until I upshifted using the '+' paddle. After that it has behaved normally for at least 100 miles of mixed driving.

So two instances which were a bit worrying, or am I missing something?

I'm not sure whether I was in 'Sport' mode at the time, but the box seems to be really 'sharp' (in a good way) in 'Sport', and a bit uncertain which gear to be in in normal driving mode - i.e it sometimes needs quite positive throttle inputs to urge it to change down. I appreciate that it's probably programmed to save fuel in 'normal' mode but...

Is this normal?

I'm mainly concerned about the 1st gear weirdness though.

TIA

[iborguk]

Welcome to ownership 👍

I can’t  speak to the behaviour but I don’t think you can overrev a PDK, the software will prevent that.

This maybe of Interest

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by iborguk

[cozzykim]

8 minutes ago, iborguk said:

Welcome to ownership 👍

I can’t  speak to the behaviour but I don’t think you can overrev a PDK, the software will prevent that.

 

Thanks, that was going to be my next question. I presumed that would be the case but, possibly not if there's a PDK control/filter/solenoid problem?

[iborguk]

2 minutes ago, cozzykim said:

Thanks, that was going to be my next question. I presumed that would be the case but, possibly not if there's a PDK control/filter/solenoid problem?

I’m speculating but I’d hope the PDK would put itself into an emergency run mode if it thought something was properly awry.

Sport mode will definitely liven up the PDK response and cause it to hang onto the gear for longer.

If you’re concerned I’d suggest get the car hooked up to a Porsche PIWIS and get any active codes read. If you share your location or look on the members map there maybe someone with access to one or can suggest an Indy who has.

 

[cozzykim]

Thanks, I'll see whether I can gather any more instances first, before panicking 😁

 

The PIWIS video is interesting, I'll have to watch some more.

[mr.tourette23]

Id not be too concerned I think most automatic gearboxes occasionally have brain farts.. Ive had that not changing up when you think it should and grabbing the next gear yourself with the paddle on my mercs  and bmws on the odd occasion in the past but it doesn't happen very often and its never happened frequently enough to worry me.. I guess if it keeps misbehaving it may be worth hooking up to a diagnostic

[cozzykim]

45 minutes ago, mr.tourette23 said:

Id not be too concerned I think most automatic gearboxes occasionally have brain farts.. Ive had that not changing up when you think it should and grabbing the next gear yourself with the paddle on my mercs  and bmws on the odd occasion in the past but it doesn't happen very often and its never happened frequently enough to worry me.. I guess if it keeps misbehaving it may be worth hooking up to a diagnostic

I have the statutory 6 months to make sure that it's okay. 👍😊

[Greenman]

A few of things worth mentioning in case you didn’t know.

The PDK doesn’t just have 2 maps (or 3 if you have Chrono),  it has multiple maps that it is shifting between depending on how you are driving.  This can mean if you have been driving aggressively and then come into a village and tootle it may not act quite how you expect.  If you suddenly boot it (kick down even) it may think you want to change down into the lowest gear available on anticipation of an overtake or similar. 

It’s not completely foolproof, you can catch it out if you drive ‘strangely’ (do what it doesn’t expect).  

Pull both paddles at once to go into neutral.

On cold mornings gear changes can be a bit jerky for a minute or so.

It does need learning to some degree, like knowing what accelerator change will result in a change down in each mode etc.

 

Overall I think it’s a great thing and I really enjoy using it, yet despite its sometimes seemingly mind reading ability I still use manual mode when on a spirited drive.

[CMA]

3 hours ago, cozzykim said:

The first one was when it seemed to drop into 1st at too high revs. I don't think it over revved but I was doing about 40mph and, either I inadvertently dropped it down via the '-' paddle when downshifting or there was a double signal sent by the paddle, maybe?

I found sometimes if you're not positive in your action with the paddles you can sometimes cause it to drop 2 gears. But it won't allow you to drop into a gear that will cause damage anyway as there is over rev protection.

 

3 hours ago, cozzykim said:

The second one was yesterday: I set off from a rural junction onto a busy slight uphill main road. I booted it, as I was trying to match the traffic flow, and it revved really high in 1st gear and didn't seem to want to shift until I upshifted using the '+' paddle. After that it has behaved normally for at least 100 miles of mixed driving.

As you booted it the box might have thought you were on for a hard/sporty/fast drive so held onto the gear to the red line. Happens quite a bit in my Macan not as much in the Boxster. I just hit the + and move it up as I'm expecting it to happen now I've learnt how the boxes operates and if you dont, it will move up itself just higher revs that you may have wished.

 

 

[cozzykim]

2 hours ago, CMA said:

I found sometimes if you're not positive in your action with the paddles you can sometimes cause it to drop 2 gears. But it won't allow you to drop into a gear that will cause damage anyway as there is over rev protection.

 

As you booted it the box might have thought you were on for a hard/sporty/fast drive so held onto the gear to the red line. Happens quite a bit in my Macan not as much in the Boxster. I just hit the + and move it up as I'm expecting it to happen now I've learnt how the boxes operates and if you dont, it will move up itself just higher revs that you may have wished.

 

 

Thanks, that's eased my concern quite a bit. The only slight reservation I had about a PDK was the horrendous cost of replacing a defective one.

I'm told that I'm perhaps a little bit 'mechanically oversensitive'. 😁

[daz05]

I think both are user error, the first you've double tapped or maybe held the paddle, the second I think you've hit the downshift threshold under the pedal and it's shifted to the most aggressive gear possible, it will hold the gear until you instruct otherwise which is exactly what you would want the car to do in that situation.

If you boot be mindful of how far down you mash the pedal.

[Chris D]

I'm still trying to work out PDK manual. More so in Sport Plus.

In manual - it will change automatically at the redline if your foot is flat to the floor on the throttle. More so in 2nd onwards. 1st I tend to change before as I've not quite sussed it yet.

I've watched videos of 981 PDKs on the nurburgring and with it in manual i don't see the driver shifting themselves. Up/Down. Paddles or stick.

[daz05]

10 hours ago, Chris D said:

I'm still trying to work out PDK manual. More so in Sport Plus.

In manual - it will change automatically at the redline if your foot is flat to the floor on the throttle. More so in 2nd onwards. 1st I tend to change before as I've not quite sussed it yet.

I've watched videos of 981 PDKs on the nurburgring and with it in manual i don't see the driver shifting themselves. Up/Down. Paddles or stick.

What you think is manual mode is not actually manual mode, manual mode is only active when the shift lever is pushed to the left (rhd car).

Auto is engaged when not, the driver can override with the paddles but because the lever is in the auto position it will take over again unless there is driver intervention.

In manual mode you can hit the limiter.

[cozzykim]

8 hours ago, daz05 said:

In manual mode you can hit the limiter.

Eek!

"I'm sorry Dave, this machine is too important to allow you to jeapordize it".

[Terryg]

4 minutes ago, cozzykim said:

Eek!

"I'm sorry Dave, this machine is too important to allow you to jeapordize it".

Does that mean you don't approve of hitting the limiter? Lots of ex bikers here, pretty sure a lot of them would have bounced off the limiter from time to time. Before the abuse starts, I agree, very little point on the road, surprisingly easy on a track.

[daz05]

31 minutes ago, Terryg said:

Does that mean you don't approve of hitting the limiter? Lots of ex bikers here, pretty sure a lot of them would have bounced off the limiter from time to time. Before the abuse starts, I agree, very little point on the road, surprisingly easy on a track.

Looks to me that it was a quote from a movie and you've taken it literally 🤣

[cozzykim]

32 minutes ago, daz05 said:

Looks to me that it was a quote from a movie and you've taken it literally 🤣

2001 👍

[cozzykim]

1 hour ago, Terryg said:

Does that mean you don't approve of hitting the limiter? Lots of ex bikers here, pretty sure a lot of them would have bounced off the limiter from time to time. Before the abuse starts, I agree, very little point on the road, surprisingly easy on a track.

Funnily enough, I was quite happy to red line my 987.2 manual, but this PDK 981S is a completely different drive. It doesn't seem to particularly want to get into the upper half of the rev range.

The 987 was doing around 3200 RPM at 70 mph, where the 981 sits at around 2000 RPM. It does take some getting used to.

It looks similar on the outside, but it has a totally different character from the 987.

[Paul P]

29 minutes ago, cozzykim said:

Funnily enough, I was quite happy to red line my 987.2 manual, but this PDK 981S is a completely different drive. It doesn't seem to particularly want to get into the upper half of the rev range.

The 987 was doing around 3200 RPM at 70 mph, where the 981 sits at around 2000 RPM. It does take some getting used to.

It looks similar on the outside, but it has a totally different character from the 987.

There's a few ways of communicating intent to the PDK without actually hitting the paddles/buttons.

An instructor from the porsche experience centre told me "little blip, will change down a gear, bigger blip changes down 2, floor it (without hitting the "limit switch kick down) and release back to where you were the car will take the lowest gear ir can and put itself in the power band". Also - hard braking and sharp turn in make it more likely to select a lower gear since it assumes it "game on" - i think that's the same logic as it holding the gear longer than expected, and that's all a bit more "aggressive" in sport/sport plus modes. It takes note of how quickly you have pushed the accelerator as well as how far you have pressed it. I also read somewhere that the PSM system takes not of a rapid accelerator release and starts to apply the brakes in anticipation of a braking event ( and PASM if you have it will stiffen the front shocks as well) 

Clever stuff - but as others have said it's not totally foolproof - I think you learn "each other" over time

[cozzykim]

6 minutes ago, Paul P said:

There's a few ways of communicating intent to the PDK without actually hitting the paddles/buttons.

An instructor from the porsche experience centre told me "little blip, will change down a gear, bigger blip changes down 2, floor it (without hitting the "limit switch kick down) and release back to where you were the car will take the lowest gear ir can and put itself in the power band". Also - hard braking and sharp turn in make it more likely to select a lower gear since it assumes it "game on" - i think that's the same logic as it holding the gear longer than expected, and that's all a bit more "aggressive" in sport/sport plus modes. It takes note of how quickly you have pushed the accelerator as well as how far you have pressed it. I also read somewhere that the PSM system takes not of a rapid accelerator release and starts to apply the brakes in anticipation of a braking event ( and PASM if you have it will stiffen the front shocks as well) 

Clever stuff - but as others have said it's not totally foolproof - I think you learn "each other" over time

Thanks, that's really helpful, I didn't realise that it's that clever. 👍

[Chris D]

11 hours ago, daz05 said:

What you think is manual mode is not actually manual mode, manual mode is only active when the shift lever is pushed to the left (rhd car).

Auto is engaged when not, the driver can override with the paddles but because the lever is in the auto position it will take over again unless there is driver intervention.

In manual mode you can hit the limiter.

Sorry, I meant stick pushed over into manual too.

In manual (stick pushed over) it will still change gear itself. But your foot has to be planted to the floor. I can only assume (I've also read somewhere) there's a micro switch on the throttle; kick down or whatever. Once this is engaged (foot flat to floor) it'll change at redline. Reach red line without foot planted and it'll bounce off the limiter. In my experience anyway.

[Terryg]

1 hour ago, daz05 said:

Looks to me that it was a quote from a movie and you've taken it literally 🤣

I didn't know that, but I thought it raised an interesting question that I hadn't seen asked before, it cuts to the chase on how people drive their sports cars. I certainly wouldn't advocate redlining frequently but neither would I be afraid of it. My 986 encouraged it more, the 987.2 doesn't really need it and I suspect it is even more pointless on the 981.

[Patt]

You can still activate kick down whist in "manual" mode.  

If you are in Sports Plus it will not change up until almost the red line.

You can accidently double click a paddle, you can also double click if you are holding the paddle or lever - easy done on the lever if hard accelerating.  Not so easy in the 718 as the reversed the direction of gear change on the lever.

PDK is great, but definitely takes a bit of experimenting before you are accustomed to.  I couldn't use it with the auto start stop, so I've reprogrammed that so it's not not always on when you start the car.

[Topbox]

Indeed, kickdown kicking in when in manual mode made me jump. I have since learnt how not to be so clumsy & kickdown inadvertantly 👍

[Patt]

It's even worse once you re-map the engine and throttle position maps !

two weeks before I can get my PDK etc updated - then I can remove the function with the Cobb 😉