Caught Out!!

[Ringmaster999]

Well thought I’d have a day driving today. Got the car out of the garage and off its Ctek. First stop petrol. Full tank of Shells finest and off we go!! Nope 👎 car won’t start. All dash lights as normal but it’s throwing all sorts of faults at me in the left binicle and refusing to start 👎 So AA turn up and after a quick inspection and test of the battery announces the battery is done. What that three year old Porsche battery I had put on because the original (that had given no trouble) was seven years old and I never wanted to get caught out! Yep it’s done. That’s ironic I thought 🤔. 
Any way after being precious three years back I let the AA man put a Bosch AGM  battery on. £251 so the day was salvaged.

But interesting that I always had a display of 12.7 and above on the Volts display and have never had a hint of it failing. Whilst waiting for the AA man I opened the boot and front lid with both the key and the switches. So no indication there the battery was done. Also like I say a full illuminated dash like normal when placing key in and turning to position one. 
 

Maybe my Ctek is faulty 🤷‍♂️

Edited July 13, 2023 by Ringmaster999

[Gunscrossed]

How do you connect your ctek?

[Ringmaster999]

1 hour ago, Gunscrossed said:

How do you connect your ctek?

 Via the inboard 12v socket in the glove box. I’m in and out of the garage daily and all the lights on the Ctek have always sown everything as it should. Like I said the voltage reading has always been good on the display. I could even open the front lid and boot. Just not enough juice to start the car. 🤷‍♂️

[½cwt]

Interesting that you got Shell's finest at an Esso station.... 🤔

Glad you are back on the road without too much inconvenience.

[Ringmaster999]

1 hour ago, ½cwt said:

Shell's

Yep well spotted. Of course it’s should have said Esso 😂👍

[Paul P]

out of interest - and not wishing to open the "needs it vs can be done vs doesn't do anything" debate - but was the car coded/told the n previous Porsche battery or the replacement supplied by the AA had been installed?

Just wondering if the short life span of the Porsche one (vs the original) could be linked to charging characteristics ?

 

[Topbox]

6 hours ago, Paul P said:

out of interest - and not wishing to open the "needs it vs can be done vs doesn't do anything" debate - but was the car coded/told the n previous Porsche battery or the replacement supplied by the AA had been installed?

Just wondering if the short life span of the Porsche one (vs the original) could be linked to charging characteristics ?

 

That an interesting sounding question Paul can you expand on that a bit ,  might be useful info for us less technical types. Thanks 

[Mattman42]

on the plus side, it looked good while it was broken down - bet the other customers loved you!

[iborguk]

3 minutes ago, Topbox said:

That an interesting sounding question Paul can you expand on that a bit ,  might be useful info for us less technical types. Thanks 

When you swap the battery on a 981/718 the official process is that you need to code the make, serial number and the battery's capacity to the car using PIWIS. 

This optimises the charging circuit characteristics for the battery, as the car is "told" it has a new battery.

 

[TV8]

4 minutes ago, iborguk said:

When you swap the battery on a 981/718 the official process is that you need to code the make, serial number and the battery's capacity to the car using PIWIS. 

This optimises the charging circuit characteristics for the battery, as the car is "told" it has a new battery.

 

Another reason I am glad to have gone with the earlier generation of Boxster rather than the later one! 
At the Festival of Speed yesterday I saw this very traditional looking alternator on a very high tech and un traditional super car.  

[Paul P]

38 minutes ago, Topbox said:

That an interesting sounding question Paul can you expand on that a bit ,  might be useful info for us less technical types. Thanks 

The stop start systems try to be clever.  
 

one part of it is estimating the “state of charge”’of a battery.  I guess to figure out if can switch the car off and  stand a chance of restarting it.  Other parts are “when doing stop start things like the alternator “disconnect” from the pulley so the car isn’t dragging the alternator round while it’s try to start.  The car will also vary the charge rate to the battery based on current temperature, and the current state of charge and I guess other params especially true of agm batteries. 

That’s why you are supposed to use the battery positive and a chassis earth for charging or jumping cars equipped with these battery sensors  so they can keep track of what’s gone in and what’s come out of the battery  

Batteries degrade over time - the car apparently adapts to the state of charge and the degradation.  So.  The official process is to tell the car when it got a new battery, you tell it what the chemistry is and what it’s AH rating is.  So it does back to its baseline and “learns/estimates from there”

it’s not just a Porsche thing.  Loads of brands have the same thing.  
 

many folks have just swapped like for like batteries with no apparent issue but I have always wondered if there is a longer term knock on regarding how the car “treats” the battery. In this case my thinking was “car might think this is a 10 year old battery and be pushing it harder (or conversely not charging it properly) than it would have done if it was told it was new. 
 

mate of mine swapped battery on his 2015 ford because stop start didn’t work.  Still didn’t work with new battery until we did the learning / coding then it sprang to life.  

I figure all the car manufacturers wouldn’t have built in the “reset” process of it did nothing  but that’s just my feeling  

the thing that’s dumb is the with a few exceptions you need some kind of diag tool to do it   If they had made it a function of the cars menu or even a big button under the bonnet that you were supposed to press then nobody would think twice about doing it  but diags = tools or dealers and therefore it’s often not done because it would turn a 250 fix into a 400 one  icarsoft and the foxwell nt530 include the functions to do it  (as well as PIWIS obvs)

It interests me because I like to know and I am lucky to have access to tools to do it when I have needed to  

I don’t think it’s a black and white good bad type thing and of course everyone makes their own mind up about their cars  but I personally think it’s worth doing if you have the tools or access to do it   

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Paul P

[Mattman42]

27 minutes ago, Paul P said:

The stop start systems try to be clever.  
 

one part of it is estimating the “state of charge”’of a battery.  I guess to figure out if can switch the car off and  stand a chance of restarting it.  Other parts are “when doing stop start things like the alternator “disconnect” from the pulley so the car isn’t dragging the alternator round while it’s try to start.  The car will also vary the charge rate to the battery based on current temperature, and the current state of charge and I guess other params especially true of agm batteries. 

That’s why you are supposed to use the battery positive and a chassis earth for charging or jumping cars equipped with these battery sensors  so they can keep track of what’s gone in and what’s come out of the battery  

Batteries degrade over time - the car apparently adapts to the state of charge and the degradation.  So.  The official process is to tell the car when it got a new battery, you tell it what the chemistry is and what it’s AH rating is.  So it does back to its baseline and “learns/estimates from there”

it’s not just a Porsche thing.  Loads of brands have the same thing.  
 

many folks have just swapped like for like batteries with no apparent issue but I have always wondered if there is a longer term knock on regarding how the car “treats” the battery. In this case my thinking was “car might think this is a 10 year old battery and be pushing it harder (or conversely not charging it properly) than it would have done if it was told it was new. 
 

mate of mine swapped battery on his 2015 ford because stop start didn’t work.  Still didn’t work with new battery until we did the learning / coding then it sprang to life.  

I figure all the car manufacturers wouldn’t have built in the “reset” process of it did nothing  but that’s just my feeling  

the thing that’s dumb is the with a few exceptions you need some kind of diag tool to do it   If they had made it a function of the cars menu or even a big button under the bonnet that you were supposed to press then nobody would think twice about doing it  but diags = tools or dealers and therefore it’s often not done because it would turn a 250 fix into a 400 one  icarsoft and the foxwell nt530 include the functions to do it  (as well as PIWIS obvs)

It interests me because I like to know and I am lucky to have access to tools to do it when I have needed to  

I don’t think it’s a black and white good bad type thing and of course everyone makes their own mind up about their cars  but I personally think it’s worth doing if you have the tools or access to do it   

 

Have the same issue on my sons 120d - battery swapped and not coded so it bings a warning every time you start - but he can't be bothered/want to spend the money on taking it to a garage to get coded and the associated cost - the whole thing feels like a rip off to me

[iborguk]

10 minutes ago, Mattman42 said:

Have the same issue on my sons 120d - battery swapped and not coded so it bings a warning every time you start - but he can't be bothered/want to spend the money on taking it to a garage to get coded and the associated cost - the whole thing feels like a rip off to me

Bimmercode app

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/bimmercode-for-bmw-and-mini/id1130787459

https://bimmercode.app/cars/bmw/1-series-1-series-m-coupe/

Edited July 14, 2023 by iborguk

[iborguk]

13 minutes ago, iborguk said:

Bimmercode app

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/bimmercode-for-bmw-and-mini/id1130787459

https://bimmercode.app/cars/bmw/1-series-1-series-m-coupe/

@Mattman42 Digging into the app detail says it also needs more money inserted with the purchase of this app instead so not quite as cheap as it first appeared 

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/bimmerlink-for-bmw-and-mini/id1065360416

Edited July 14, 2023 by iborguk

[Paul P]

31 minutes ago, Mattman42 said:

Have the same issue on my sons 120d - battery swapped and not coded so it bings a warning every time you start - but he can't be bothered/want to spend the money on taking it to a garage to get coded and the associated cost - the whole thing feels like a rip off to me

"Some say" - likely there is a tool with suitable capability on Amazon, that "some say" could be purchased, found to be "not fit for purpose" after "testing" on a car and then returned.

But must admit that given your habit I am surprised that you haven't got a multibrand scanner in the arsenal - I have an icarsoft cr pro that has "all the brands they support" coverage- that has a set of service functions for most brands and models - including things like "electric handbrake windback", "abs pump activation", "service interval reset" and "battery replacement" - along with code reads / clear etc. its worked well enough on a range of cars for my domestic fleet and mates cars ( it's not perfect and it has some gaps in its coverage for service functions but  it's earned its cost over the couple of years I have had it I reckon.

[Topbox]

Thanks @Paul P I had some inkling of this battery issue but that was a informative post thanks. @iborguk to thanks 👍 So much to learn in life and not enough time and all that

[Mattman42]

58 minutes ago, Paul P said:

"Some say" - likely there is a tool with suitable capability on Amazon, that "some say" could be purchased, found to be "not fit for purpose" after "testing" on a car and then returned.

But must admit that given your habit I am surprised that you haven't got a multibrand scanner in the arsenal - I have an icarsoft cr pro that has "all the brands they support" coverage- that has a set of service functions for most brands and models - including things like "electric handbrake windback", "abs pump activation", "service interval reset" and "battery replacement" - along with code reads / clear etc. its worked well enough on a range of cars for my domestic fleet and mates cars ( it's not perfect and it has some gaps in its coverage for service functions but  it's earned its cost over the couple of years I have had it I reckon.

I have a generic obd code reader which is good for basic reading and clearing but never got around to investing in a more comprehensive tool

[Ringmaster999]

On 7/14/2023 at 9:07 AM, Paul P said:

out of interest - and not wishing to open the "needs it vs can be done vs doesn't do anything" debate - but was the car coded/told the n previous Porsche battery or the replacement supplied by the AA had been installed?

Just wondering if the short life span of the Porsche one (vs the original) could be linked to charging characteristics ?

 

So firstly the battery I had replaced was the original. Never had a problem but it was seven yrs old and I’m a bit paranoid about getting caught out whilst on one of my trips. How ironic 😂 So only back in March 21 the car was in for a major service with Lee at CPS so I had him change the battery. He used a Porsche battery on my request and I’m positive he would have coded the battery and followed the correct procedure for doing so. But even though when not in use it was sat in the garage on a Ctek this never stopped it failing without warning as it did. 
AA man also told me it needed coding and plugged a device in the port and did a coding using the information gained from the top of the battery etc. I did have to re teach the windows by opening and closing but now everything seems to be working fine. Regards stop/start function it’s something I always turn off on start up. But when I sometimes forget it worked fine. Even to the point if I did forget to turn it off when I got to the exit of my estate some 100 meters from the house it would turn off at the traffic lights. So again never any indication the battery was weak.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Ringmaster999

[Paul P]

That’s unlucky by the sounds of it.  

[Ringmaster999]

9 minutes ago, Paul P said:

That’s unlucky by the sounds of it.  

Yep more than likely. Just one of those things I suppose. The joys of motoring 😂👍

[EXY]

On 7/14/2023 at 3:44 PM, Paul P said:

That’s why you are supposed to use the battery positive and a chassis earth for charging or jumping cars equipped with these battery sensors  so they can keep track of what’s gone in and what’s come out of the battery 

Interesting, I usually advise to use a chassis earthing point to ensure explosive gasses don't ignite with a spark when removing the charging leads.

I understand the sensing circuit being bypassed by direct connection to the battery negative post but isn't there a dedicated earthing post for charging in this case?

[Paul P]

3 hours ago, EXY said:

Interesting, I usually advise to use a chassis earthing point to ensure explosive gasses don't ignite with a spark when removing the charging leads.

I understand the sensing circuit being bypassed by direct connection to the battery negative post but isn't there a dedicated earthing post for charging in this case?

I believe there is.  But I know folks have used alternate chassis connections for permanent wired cteks etc.  where the cables don’t reach the post

I think it’s more “not battery negative” than specifically “connect here”. Probably that’s to make it clear to folks who don’t know how the car is wired.  
 

 

[Araf]

On 7/15/2023 at 10:31 AM, Ringmaster999 said:

Regards stop/start function it’s something I always turn off on start up. But when I sometimes forget it worked fine. Even to the point if I did forget to turn it off when I got to the exit of my estate some 100 meters from the house it would turn off at the traffic lights. So again never any indication the battery was weak.

On my start-stop cars, if the battery has been even slightly below fully charged, the start-stop disables.  I'm sure it's the case for all start-stop systems, so with yours working properly I can't see how the battery was at fault.  Your symptoms would suggest a loose or dry terminal to me.

As for £251 saving the day, that battery is £163 from Tayna (retail) and breakdown drivers get commission on battery sales.  I'm not suggesting an unscrupulous AA man but the financial incentive may have been sufficient for him to not be as thorough as he may otherwise have been.

Finally, the trickle charging.  I'm sure that the 12v sockets on Porsches (and other cars) shut down as the car goes to sleep.  For this reason, I always hard wire to battery terminals for long periods of use (car inactivity).

[Menoporsche]

5 minutes ago, Araf said:

I'm sure that the 12v sockets on Porsches (and other cars) shut down as the car goes to sleep.

987 and on say after 20 mins “unless something is connected during that time“ (forgot the precise wording). I switch car off and within 2 minutes plug my solar charger into the centre console lighter socket. Car has started fine after 2 months so I assume it’s working. 

[iborguk]

12 minutes ago, Araf said:

 

Finally, the trickle charging.  I'm sure that the 12v sockets on Porsches (and other cars) shut down as the car goes to sleep.  For this reason, I always hard wire to battery terminals for long periods of use (car inactivity).

From experience the ciggy sockets on 987's and 718's stay alive if used to charge, that's how I've connected mine, no issues.

Edited July 16, 2023 by iborguk