Engine braking

[Artj]

New member here who is in negotiations with my nearest Porsche dealer, to help me before I take a test drive could anyone give me their opinions regarding the 718 engine characteristic ?

Bit of history for the last 16 years I have been driving various MGF/TF cars so I am quite used to the feel of the mid engine car layout even though the performance and engineering are not comparable with Porsche. When the last TF went I purchased an Audi TT roadster, massive contrast in driving experience, front wheel drive seems to rob the steering of any ' feel ' not unsafe but just a woolly feel but the biggest culture shock is the lack of engine braking, I was used with the MG to approaching an island etc drop 1 or 2 gears and balance the car direction with a touch of throttle combined with the steering input. Can anyone advise me if this lack of engine braking is feature of a turbo engine or just an Audi characteristic ? I would be disappointed if the Porsche Boxster engine performed in the same way, I know modern driving teaching is a brake to stop, accelerate to go system but I am fast approaching 72 and cannot rid myself of the habit of using the gearbox to adjust my speed, maybe at my age I should be looking at a Honda Jazz ? ?

Thanks,

Art

[Guvs]

Hi Art.

I came from a life of MGF/MGTF and on my second Boxster now best thing I ever did, having said that I still love the MG's and as for the engine braking very similar in the 986 & 987 can't comment on the 718 though.

 I will say I never lost the rear end in a MG however, the first week in the Boxster I did there is a hell of a lot more power in the Boxster, so be careful exiting roundabouts in the wet that's all I'll say.

Guvs.  

[topradio]

Engine braking on my 986 is massive and that's with me switching between a diesel van and the 2.5. I find that when entering a corner on a twisty B road I often don't need to brake at all, just select the right gear.

The 981 is totally different, but it is an auto so its going to be. Engine braking is minimal and changing down doesn't help as the ecu rev-matches and you almost seem to speed up, so lots of use of the brakes. Also with stop/start enabled the engine is disconnected on the overrun and there is no load from the motor! (I don't use the auto stop/start)

I can't remember what the 981 manual was like but my bet is that the engine braking is a lot less aggressive than the earlier car. I would recommend taking an extended test drive in cars with both sizes of engine and see for yourself. I have to admit to being totally blown away by the 981, but I was coming from a 20 year old Porsche design. The difference to your MG will be epic.

[Menoporsche]

I think the lack of steering feel on your Audi was not because it was FWD but because it was an Audi. That brand has been criticized for it for 20+ years. 

Over 70 and your first Boxster? Way to go!  I sincerely hope you enjoy it. If you are unsure about turbo or PDK, would you consider a used manual 981?

[map]

I wonder if the lack of engine braking is in fact a feature of the ECU programming/emissions related.

Have noticed on our newer cars that a lift of the throttle (to trim distance to the car in front at motorway speeds for example) doesn't reduce road speed as much as it does in my 986.  

Have also sensed this in hire cars, company cars and a friend's v6 Diesel Amarok a couple of weeks ago.

[Malcolm E Box]

I have a PDK 718 and the engine braking is almost non existent.

 

[Scubaregs]

PDK has a "coast" feature does it not, disengages the drivetrain for better fuel economy.

[topradio]

36 minutes ago, Scubaregs said:

PDK has a "coast" feature does it not, disengages the drivetrain for better fuel economy.

Only when you have the auto stop/start on and even then only under certain other (unspecified) conditions.

[Scubaregs]

Ah ok. That will be getting switched off then.

[Artj]

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies, I am very lacking in knowledge regarding the various Boxster model number/type of engines etc, I there anywhere I could look that would be put the models into some type of timeline ? I briefly looked at a 718 in the showroom and a test drive is booked for 18th June but I am not settled on that model due to the rather mean offer for mine as a part ex  so to make the price within my reach I may have to look for a ' lightly used ' older car, any suggestions would be welcomed.

[Menoporsche]

All before a 718 are naturally aspirated, no turbos.

What we call the 987.1 was built 2005-2008 with an "old" engine; the 987.2 (built 2009-2012) looked nearly identical but crucially had a completely new engine and gearbox. Engine sizes were 2.9 and 3.4.  Choice of manual or PDK, the semi-auto that gets absolutely rave reviews compared to what was before it. It has converted many manual fans.  

The 981 came in 2.7 (yet more bhp than the previous 2.9) and 3.4 (S) engine guise. Built approx 2013-2017. Looks very similar to the 718. Again, manual or PDK gears.

It seems not so many manuals were sold so if you insist on one - as is your right - you may not find a lot of cars to choose from, certainly not as many as PDKs.

Where are you in the country Art?

@Stuart21UK, did you notice if your 981 manual had notably less engine braking than your 987.1?

[topradio]

Take a look at this, it covers it all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Boxster/Cayman

The current car (718) is a 4 cylinder turbocharged unit and comes with a choice of two engines, 2L and 2.5L (some think that this doesn't sound right in a Boxster but owners seem to like it) 

The previous model (981) is a 6 cylinder normally aspirated also with a choice of two engines (3 if you include the Spider) 2.7L & 3.4L. A lot of enthusiasts think that this car may hold its value better as it was the last of the 6 cylinder cars. 

[Jon61]

21 minutes ago, Artj said:

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies, I am very lacking in knowledge regarding the various Boxster model number/type of engines etc, I there anywhere I could look that would be put the models into some type of timeline ?

As good a summary as anything: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Boxster/Cayman

Re the issue of engine braking, the OP doesn't say anything about auto or manual gearbox, which I think us going to be much more significant in this context than manufacturer,  turbo or not, or FWD/RWD etc. I would expect any auto (or a PDK driven in auto), to provide virtually no engine braking, as if you're not accelerating, the gearbox would normally be programmed to be in as high a gear as possible.

I'd say that my 981 PDK, when driven in manual mode, does give some engine braking, though possibly less than the 986 -it's hArd to compare though as the gearing is so different. Yes, the rev-matching does mean that you don't get the initial retardation that you do in a manual when you re-engage the clutch without any throttle, but if you then keep your foot off the gas, the the ecu-supplied throttle falls off immediately I think. The coasting function, which you don't want for engine braking, also never cuts in if you drive in manual (or with stop/start turned off, or with Sport or Sport+ on, as mentioned above).

[Stuart21UK]

2 hours ago, Menoporsche said:

 

@Stuart21UK, did you notice if your 981 manual had notably less engine braking than your 987.1?

nope

[Artj]

Again many thanks for the helpful replies, the Wiki article was just what I needed to help my planning. The TT is a full manual version but as I change down there is no speed reduction, it feels in the gap between gears that the car is so free running that I am going faster with no engine input which results in me arriving at an island etc braking more than I would like rathe than using the throttle to adjust the cars direction. In view of the dealers part ex offer I may have to consider an earlier model but now having read your replies etc it may be more suitable for my driving style, the test on the 18th will be interesting as there will be no point in spending money just to experience the same driving characteristic as I have now.

i live in Shrewsbury, Shropshire, 20 miles from the Welsh border where there are many roads where the characteristics of a mid engined car can be enjoyed, nothing puts a smile on my face more than going round a 50 mph corner at 55 mph !

[Greenman]

I am speaking as a 981 PDK owner who hasn’t driven a 986 or 987 but has driven 718.  I do not fully agree with all of the points made above.

The 981 PDK has plenty of engine braking when driven in an ‘appropriate’ manner. If you use manual mode then you can balance the car on the throttle before you enter a corner, I will regularly be in 3rd along a short straight between bends, lifting off before you enter the corner at say 5000 revs gives loads of engine braking and you can balance the car on the throttle. If you change down to 2nd it will rev match so momentarily you won’t get any braking but this will soon kick in if you are off the throttle (this change down will still be much quicker than a manual change even allowing for the throttle blip)

If you use auto mode things are slightly different, but remember this is a dual clutch not a torque converter so you can still get plenty of engine braking. In normal mode you will generally be in a relatively high gear so unlikely to get much braking effect (as previously noted). In sport mode though higher gears will be maintained and gears are held through corners etc, but the gearbox is very adaptive so will depend very much on recent driving style.

The 718 is somewhat different, being a turbo it will be off boost when you are off the throttle and the relative wheel torque will reduce significantly relative to the onboost power, it may be a similar thing you felt in the Audi you drove?  Here the engine braking will be reduced relative to the car power.

The PDK coast function is a red herring here as it will never kick in in the circumstances discussed here

Diesel cars and full autos work in a slightly different way so will feel different but I’ve blathered on long enough.

[Patt]

I found the 2.0 718 to be missing some much needed torque low down - especially if driven without sports button pressed.  That "opps pulled out a bit cheeky there" moment and then there was no power to get you out of trouble.  With sports mode engaged this was a lot less noticeable.

718 cracking car and pretty too, but I'm one of those that prefer the flat 6 sound track.

I too find that the pdk has significantly less engine braking, but this is the first auto I've owned in years (excluding some that I converted to manual)

[CMA]

I've had a manual 981 and now have the pdk 981. I found both have the same level of engine braking if driven in a similar fashion. If you put the PDK in manual mode and keeping the revs higher, as you would be in a manual, gives the same engine braking as the manual. If you leave it in full auto then you get very little as the auto keeps the revs far lower, ergo you get very little.

[Happy Days]

I have a manual 718s and a PDK Macan. The PDK box has virtually no engine braking whereas the manual Boxster does. However, it is also important to remember that the PDK is a 7-speed box, whereas the MG would probably be a five speed? Therefore there will be shorter steps between the cogs on the PDK and therefore the engine braking will be reduced to a degree as the gaps in ratios are much closer.