Manual vs PDK...

[jonnyspyder]

4 minutes ago, topradio said:

Old hand then.

Have you picked up on the PDK versus manual undercurrent on here yet?

I made the same faux pas when I was young 🤣

yes, it's almost as if there's a 'them' and 'us' situation, which is odd because the thems (the stick shift luddites) are clearly deluded, if they really want 'involvement' perhaps they should try a treadle sewing machine which incorporates the use of most if not all limbs (depending on ones own limb count)

[Jonttt]

4 hours ago, jonnyspyder said:

I'm late on this, I have a 987 II with pdk having previously enjoyed 3 manual porsches, what the video does not mention is that the pdk 'learns' your driving habits and adapts to suit, but also the pdk has hidden secrets that not all owners have discovered, for example(s) if you blip on overrun so long as rev limiter allows the pdk will change down - handy for 'sportier' driving down twisties, and if you are really charging and braking hard hard the pdk will auto blip and change down the box so that engine speed is matching road speed - in an emergency stop the box will also down change which helps retardation with engine braking. When Sport or Sport + are selected the box changes up the gears sooo quick that the car sounds like an F1 race car - rrrrrRRRRR-cag!-rrrrrRRR -cag!... such fun. The pdk appears to be as complex as PSM, it's only down sides are that it is a tad heavier than a manual set up and my left leg has atrophied but let's not forget hill start assist, launch control (OMG!) and the option to use manual if you care to pretend you are a driver that 'misses the involvement of having to dip the clutch and play with gear stick H- gates'. More Porkers now sell with pdk than without. Oh another advantage - a pdk car will never record an over rev - it is not possible to exceed rev limiter revs, unlike the poor valves in an old manual with an inept driver who selected the wrong gear... 

You can get overrevs on a PDK ;-).....much less likely than on a manual but it is possible....

Your “advantage” re the car auto downshifting under heavy breaking for a corner is a disadvantage to me as it changes the momentum of the car and adds an element of unpredictability which you don’t get with a manual car...its made even worse in a FI engine which has a degree of unpredictability added out of the bend if off boost ie you can end up in a rev range you did not want for the bend....nothing wrong with PDK at all, its one of the very best semi auto systems out there  but you do lose an element of control that a manual box offers for fast B road use...... I ultimately found it a little frustrating for my hobby car road use.......would I get another PDK...absolutely ....but it would be in a different car used for different purposes....

[rowbos]

2 hours ago, jonnyspyder said:

yes, it's almost as if there's a 'them' and 'us' situation, which is odd because the thems (the stick shift luddites) are clearly deluded, if they really want 'involvement' perhaps they should try a treadle sewing machine which incorporates the use of most if not all limbs (depending on ones own limb count)

I love my PDK, never going back...🤔

[Greenman]

2 hours ago, Jonttt said:

nothing wrong with PDK at all, its one of the very best semi auto systems out there  but you do lose an element of control that a manual box offers for fast B road use......

What additional level of control is there compared to PDK in manual mode?

[Paul P]

22 minutes ago, rowbos said:

I love my PDK, never going back...🤔

I love mine too.  And it’s my second one.  
 

Would I go back ?  Maybe.  Right car right time right money but for now no requirement to consider the choice.  

[iborguk]

Had a 6 speed manual - loved it.

Have a PDK with paddles - love it,  the best of both worlds, for me.

I wanted to try (and learn) a different experience, I let it take the strain when I need it and the paddles give me the immediate physical connection if I choose to lead. 

As post above, right car , right time etc I might go again on PDK or I might do a manual. I'm open to both having driven a few now and owned both.

 

 

 

 

[John K]

23 hours ago, Araf said:

Everyone's thoughts are valid - except maybe @John K  

You're just sexist...

[r1flyguy]

1 minute ago, John K said:

You're just sexy.

😳

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🤣

[½cwt]

23 hours ago, Araf said:

Everyone's thoughts are valid - except maybe @John K  

Are Mods only allowing us one valid thought, or is there an 's' missing?   🤔

[John K]

18 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

Are Mods only allowing us one valid thought, or is there an 's' missing?   🤔

I'm pretty sure he is implying I only have the capacity to hold a single thought in my mind at any one time...

[½cwt]

1 minute ago, John K said:

I'm pretty sure he is implying I only have the capacity to hold a single thought in my mind at any one time...

It reads as though he's saying you have NO valid thoughts (sorry chap!) and the rest of us are allowed just one with the missing 's'...

[½cwt]

Back on topic, no specific PDK experience, but I do have a DSG in my daily.  Great for general hauling around plus something extra when putting it in sport, but adds spice when I want to get involved.  Would definitely consider a PDK if I ever get another Boxster to replace my old school 986 S 6 speed.  Just something so rewarding about heel toeing clean changes and being 'on cam' just when YOU want it not when the computer says 'Yes'.

[John K]

3 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

It reads as though he's saying you have NO valid thoughts (sorry chap!) and the rest of us are allowed just one with the missing 's'...

Credit where credit is due, he's not that draconian

I am allowed one thought a month (TBH I'm not sure I'm capable of many more)

[John K]

Also getting back OT...

It's what is important to you. If you want to feel part of the machine then fine, manual it is

But for everyday pootling about, PDK wins for me.

TBH I would also guess that by the time you pulled off a slick heel and toe down the box (and a DDC blip if you felt like it) the PDK would actually be faster so those quick overtakes are probably safer

[Greenman]

38 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

Just something so rewarding about ...... being 'on cam' just when YOU want it not when the computer says 'Yes'.

Of course PDK gives you complete control over when you are ‘on cam’, in fact total control over all your gear changes if you want it.

PDK doesn’t (and can’t) replicate the Manual feel of clicking between the gears or the heel and toe Experiance., but that doesn’t mean there is no involvement.  I always use PDK in manual mode when driving for leisure, you have complete control of gear changes, if fact you tend to use the gears more: while accelerating between corners there’s many a time where a change from 2nd to 3rd then back to 2nd when I would simply stay in 2nd in a manual car.

There are undoubted benefits of the PDK but I can completely understand preferences for manual. 

[jonnyspyder]

36 minutes ago, Greenman said:

Of course PDK gives you complete control over when you are ‘on cam’, in fact total control over all your gear changes if you want it.

PDK doesn’t (and can’t) replicate the Manual feel of clicking between the gears or the heel and toe Experiance., but that doesn’t mean there is no involvement.  I always use PDK in manual mode when driving for leisure, you have complete control of gear changes, if fact you tend to use the gears more: while accelerating between corners there’s many a time where a change from 2nd to 3rd then back to 2nd when I would simply stay in 2nd in a manual car.

There are undoubted benefits of the PDK but I can completely understand preferences for manual. 

just a thought, thought I'd throw it out there - 'preferences' for a manual may be a coping mechanism for knowing your manual sports car isn't quite as sporting as a pdk sports car, unless anyone can suggest how a manual transmission offers anything which betters pdk (for sportiness, or imo for anything apart from -30kg)

[Menoporsche]

Ok who is actually going to tag Pothole in this thread? This is his favourite topic - and he does have the definitive answer.  Even if no-one else recognises it as such.

[Lennym1984]

1 hour ago, jonnyspyder said:

just a thought, thought I'd throw it out there - 'preferences' for a manual may be a coping mechanism for knowing your manual sports car isn't quite as sporting as a pdk sports car, unless anyone can suggest how a manual transmission offers anything which betters pdk (for sportiness, or imo for anything apart from -30kg)

Obviously a PDK is going to be faster than a manual - a human cannot physically change gear as quickly as a computer can. In the same way, at some point, a fully automated car is going to be quicker around a circuit than a car with a driver and a robot playing football may be a better penalty taker than Eric Cantona (legend!). I think the problem for me is that part of the skill/challenge of driving fast (on the track of course) is getting the gear changes right. If a computer is doing it for me, what have I actually achieved.

I'm happy to admit that from a technological point of view, PDK is far superior to manual but from an enjoyment point of view they don't really do anything for me.

So in short, it's always going to be manual for me (apart from the two automatics I own...)

 

 

 

[PaulQ]

1 hour ago, Menoporsche said:

Ok who is actually going to tag Pothole in this thread? This is his favourite topic - and he does have the definitive answer.  Even if no-one else recognises it as such.

Everyone recognises it. PDK is for lazy people who don't like driving. 

It really is that simple

 

 

[r1flyguy]

1 minute ago, PaulQ said:

Everyone recognises it. PDK is for lazy people who don't like driving. 

It really is that simple

 

 

Or drivers who want to beat the manual owners lap times or to the next bend 😂

[½cwt]

5 minutes ago, r1flyguy said:

Or drivers who want to beat the manual owners lap times or to the next bend 😂

Whish is exactly why Porsche developed the original PDK 'box for the 962 Group C car back in the late '80s... Accurate very fast gear changes and no over revs: perfect for gearbox and engine life in competition.

[Mattman42]

Just staggered we have so many driving gods on the forum who are able to go balls out into every B-road corner, heeling and toe-ing, rev matching and probably power sliding out the other side at 120 leptons an hour

For mere mortals like myself, PDK offers the best of both worlds - auto for trundling around town and in traffic, Sports mode for a B-road blast and Sport+ which i think is a bit harsh for the road, but would imagine is superb on the traffic.

Its all about evolution, PDK was created simply because it was better and faster than a manual - if that wasn't the case we'd still all be driving around in Model T's with the pedals in weird places, or riding horses.....

The next evolution is the combustion engine to the glorified milk floats/EVs which we'll have to drive very soon - hopefully i will be able to resist the change to those soul-less contraptions for a good few years yet!

[PaulQ]

11 minutes ago, Mattman42 said:

Just staggered we have so many driving gods on the forum who are able to go balls out into every B-road corner, heeling and toe-ing, rev matching and probably power sliding out the other side at 120 leptons an hour

Why do you presume people that prefer stick are good drivers.? 

I can't even heel and toe, and barely rev match a downshift

 

[Lennym1984]

You don't need to be driving fast to rev match your gear changes. I drive within the speed limit on the roads and still H&T the down changes - it just makes for smoother progress and puts less stress on the gearbox/clutch/drivetrain.

Rev matching (albeit not "heel and toe" rev matching) is taught as part of the IAM system and it just helps to keep the car balanced. The IAM system is designed to promote smooth, quick and safe driving and is worlds apart from the kind of driving you need on the track (as I found out when I first did a track day!).

For those of your who are interested (and yes I realise I sound like I am recruiting for a cult), the IAM lessons and "test" are probably the cheapest way to improve your on road driving skills. I did mine back in 2010 for £130 all in but even now it's only £149

https://www.iamroadsmart.com/courses

I'm reasonably certain they will even let automatic owners have a go

 

 

 

 

[Darkstar]

5 minutes ago, PaulQ said:

Why do you presume people that prefer stick are good drivers.? 

I can't even heel and toe, and barely rev match a downshift

 

My thoughts exactly.

I prefer the fun of driving and changing gear with a clutch is what I enjoy. All new cars are going automatic so its fun to still have one manual car.

I suppose its a bit like being driven round the Nuremburg ring by the Stig. It would be great fun but you would still ask can I have a go now. A PDK is like having the Stig changing gear for you 

An auto box is one step closer to self driving cars and yes I might want one one day but not while I can still enjoy driving.