My 2011 987 Black Edition

[Jonttt]

5 minutes ago, Patt said:

thank you for your update.  You are totally correct; I do not understand DFI engines as I stopped looking for significant power gains some years ago after my "turbo era" I enjoy modifying but I just do not want to justify some the the expenses these days.  Sure I'd like to optimise the map and often there is enough of a flat spot WOT that just tidying that up improves the overall drive.

And please accept my apologies regarding your booking, it did not read that way and I guess I also jumped to conclusions that when you book you would at least have to advise  at the very least what car you you booking in.

We have the same thought process 😉 I too was massively into modifying FI engines but now much prefer a great NA power delivery

I think the problem is that "in the old days" there was plenty of scope on a car by car basis to "live remap" and see improvements, if not in HP then in driveability but with modern engine management and performance those tolerance / variances between individual cars are negligible, therefore the scope to improve a car that is already highly tuned is much reduced. By way of example Wayne has always said that the 993 was Porsches first real introduction of MAF technology, it was in its easrly days and to put it simply Porsche got the standard OEM mapping wrong which created a "flat spot" and to make it worse at a point in the power delivery where you notice it the most. He developed a stock map years ago, tested on hundred of cars which he replaces the OEM map with to remove the dead spot. He then has a better baseline map and "live remaps" to the individual car from that. It made a massive difference to my 993 but took him c 5 hours on the dyno to optimise.

It is always interesting talking to Wayne and the "black art" of engine management. He has stopped mapping certain cars and all diesels. His view is that in the pursuit of HP manufacturers have "over" tuned their engines to the point that they are now less reliable. He was getting more cars in for a remap which actually have problems from OEM maps. They actually needed "detuning" not tuning as the manufacturers have simply pushed thier safety tolerances to the point of failure to get that "bit extra" BHP for the "new model". He specifically named a few VW models. I had a really interesting dicussion with him about the VW group and the emissions scandal, what really went on to "cheat" and cost save (even down to the type of sensors / injectors used not being fit for purpose, but for software cheats making them viable, that why the problem was not just a software change, it being a UK company which first discovered the software modes but the UK government ignoring them so they went to the USA with the evidence, etc..... truly shocking stories of what went on) 

We should take this a massive complement, driving cars like the 987.2 (and 981's) which reached the tipping point of NA engine development/tuning before emissions made then unfeasbile in a production car, they will never be replicated, much like the water cooled of yesteryear 😉

[Patt]

981 has flat spots that I do not enjoy.

I will remap when out of warranty but to remove those and aim for a linear pull

[Jonttt]

Ah, its a torque map you need then. By way of example here is the Dyno Wayne did on my 993. My car ad a problem (I was not aware of) where the varioram valves where not opening properly (due to a diaphram failure) so the pre remap shows a loss of power at the higher end. Wayne spotted it striaght away and so we bypassed it for the remap. Yuo'll see that it was not so much about BHP improvements but all about the torque (which equates to driveability in a NA car). You can plainly see the massive Torque dip and the way he smoothed that out. It made a massive difference to the way the car drives, the added bonus is its more fuel efficient lol (I now average 18MPG v 16 MPG ! but I obviously don;t drive it for fuel efficiency ;-)) nb Wayne looks at far more than just these base stats, he also consider how the car returns to idle (makes a big difference when crawling) etc..... he has put a lot of R&D and serious track / road testing into knowing these cars inside and out. Most "remappers" do not even scratch the surface of what Wayne can do, espcially to a pre DFI Porsche engine.

I never noticed a material drop in torque in my 981 GTS to be honest or I would have asked Wayne to remap it despite the warranty. I never felt the need with the GTS. Part of my logic in seeing if the 987 could be remapped was that its basically the same engine as the 981 GTS I had but with slightly less power. Porsche obviously made changes to facilitate getting that out of the engine in the 981 eg I know the manifolds are different but probably even down to injectors etc.... but I have never cross referenced part numbers.

 

Whoever you use for a dyno remap make sure you are familiar with some of the "tricks of the trade" eg you should always do the before dyno reading AFTER its been remapped and not before .....the reason due to engine being significantly hotter so you need the comparable maps running on consequative dyno runs......if you compare a dyno run from 1st to 10th there will always be a marked difference. Most don;t do this as a) it helps make the remap look better b) they can't be bothered (you have to flash back to standard and then put the new map back on).

check ambient temp readings. Standard BHP readings are measured at 15 degrees C. It is usually not that temp so every dyno has a temp compensation to adjust the readings ie you are supposed to read the ambient temp and put that into the dyno. Its not uncommon for the first (stock dyno) to have a run with a different temp set than the remapped dyno (if they are being sneaky) which does not give a like for like comparison. nb you will always get higher readings on a cold winters day, simple physics, cold air = higher combustion = more power (its also why exhaust gases are now mixed in to control emmissions)

Edited August 9, 2019 by Jonttt

[bbrbob]

Hi. doesn't the Black have the same tune as the Spyder so approx. 10hp over the standard S?  Presumably there is a little leeway for improvement up to Black / Spyder levels without changing anything but the tune?

[Jonttt]

yes thats correct, plus mine has the Sport Chrono plus option with 2 maps. However the Cayman Black Edition is higher output again so I thought Wayne may be able to eek a little more out / address any emmission related flat spots I was not aware of.........bottom line is he did not think he could add anything without compromising the safety limits for the cat and there are no flat spot on the torque curve to address..........I'm more than happy to accept Waynes expert view on this..........at least I know the car is tuned to the max out of the box by Porsche, he ended up just charging me for an hour on the dyno (which is less than it would have cost me for a normal dyno run) and refunded me the difference striaght away..........we spent over 2 hours just chatting lol

Edited August 10, 2019 by Jonttt

[Jonttt]

So with the days activities cancelled due to the bad weather  :roll: ....I found myself with some spare time.......so I tackled one of those little jobs that bug you.......

......PCM sticky button fix......

the 987 suffers from sticky PCM buttons despite Porsche (and otehr manufacturers) knowing that the "fad" to cover button with a rubberized coating degrades over time and becomes "sticky" and nasty to the touch, well done Porsche.......this is made worse by the fact that they recognised the problem and stopped coating the large climate dials (for temp and fan speed) but decided they would not bother changing the PCM buttons  :nooo: 

For 997.1/987.1 cars you can remove the buttons (they pull off) and get replacements but for the 997.2/987.2 not only did Porsche decide not to fix the problem but to also make it harder to remove the buttons and not officially sell them as a seperate item, again classic Porsche  :roll: 

To remove 997.2/987.2 PCM button you have to very very carefully remove the front plate of the button and there is a minute screw under that retaining the button. The problem is the cover is very hard to get off without scratching it.......once removed people remove the rubberised coating with baby wipes (alcohol based wipes) and then "plasticoat" spray paint them ...... now I have seen pictures of the buttons after cleaning / before painting and to me they look better pre painted.......so I decided to try to remove the rubberised coating in situ and see what they look like and then decide whether to remove to paint or not.......

what I start with......the LHS volume knob being much worse than the RHS option knob.....

so I started to rub them with baby wipes ....... the worse degraded volume knob rubbed off very very easily ......to the point you think this is too easy......however when I started on the not so bad option knob it was much much harder to remove the rubberised coating.......in fact I gave up on baby wipes on that one and resorted to .......

This made it about 50% easier but still a chore compared to the volume knob........ I would guess the volume knob took me 2 minutes, the option knob about 20 to the point of creating a blister on my finger  :oops: .....

anyway, really chuffed with the result, its more OEM than OEM and what Porsche should have done in the first place when they knew about the problem.......no need to remove and paint as looks perfect as they are.....

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by Jonttt

[Jonttt]

[bbrbob]

1 hour ago, Jonttt said:

yes thats correct, plus mine has the Sport Chrono plus option with 2 maps. However the Cayman Black Edition is higher output again so I thought Wayne may be able to eek a little more out / address any emmission related flat spots I was not aware of.........bottom line is he did not think he could add anything without compromising the safety limits for the cat and there are no flat spot on the torque curve to address..........I'm more than happy to accept Waynes expert view on this..........at least I know the car is tuned to the max out of the box by Porsche, he ended up just charging me for an hour on the dyno (which is less than it would have cost me for a normal dyno run) and refunded me the difference striaght away..........we spent over 2 hours just chatting lol

Maybe with a set of Carnewal "I look the same as standard" 200 cell modified manifolds there could be extra....

[Jonttt]

Maybe, but I’m happy with the standard spec in terms of engine / performance. If I did not have the PSE I would definitely be fitting a carnewal exhaust and may have considered their cats at the same time. If I ever get the need for a new Cat that would then be probably the route I would go but not really after more noise from a 200 cell cat as the PSE is great.

[jollop]

Nice knob!  Did something similar on my 987.1, just removed the sticky stuff (from my knobs), looked perfectly fine to me without any additional painting or coating.

[Jonttt]

So.......one of the rarest parts you can get for any porsche is an OEM Carbon Centre Console.......as they where ridiculously expensive new.......

to get one for a 987 is even rarer........

to get one that is undamaged is rarer........

to get one that is mint with no UV damage is rarer still.......

put that all together and you have an item that was worth a 5 hour round trip on a Sunday morning.......sourced from a specialist Porsche breakers........to say I'm chuffed with it is an understatment......

it is so original and mint that it deserved some special treatment.......so after some hand polish it received a coat of marine sealent to keep out the UV and make that gloss sparkle......

It is an OEM gen 1 987 console with original wiring loom still attached, I will need to switch over parts / wiring from my original console but the main issue may be the hood switch, the gen 1 used a different switch to the gen 2 which is much bigger, however I'm hoping the switch still fits the same hole, if not I'll have to get the dremmel out .....

UV Sealant (old school....lurvely....)

and an absolutely mint rare OEM product, it still has the foil protection film for the seat bolsters which is also mint

Hopefully I'll get chance to fit it next week sometime  :bandit: 

[rowbos]

That looks carbontastic and a worthy addition to your BE 😎

[Jonttt]

I have to say it is quality, you can see why they cost so much originally ie must have been made in small batches and the reject rate must have been high as they are quite intricate in places and ‘blend” into some of the fixtures seemlessly, really chuffed with it.

[Lonewolfgjp]

A lovely find and should look great in the car 👌 I went through all this carbon bit in my 986 and it cost me a fortune.

 The oem stuff has always been frighteningly expensive and hard to source used and even then it can be yellow and sun damaged. 

Mine has the gloss black console which works well with the full black leather interior 😎

[Jonttt]

Yes, I like the gloss black and that was an option ie strip out the current console and get it painted .....but I love carbon and the lacquer is less prone to showing fingerprints / scratches than gloss black.........it does mean now that I’m committed to sourcing all none leather / none gloss fixtures to carbon, hobbies should not be cheap  lol

Edited August 11, 2019 by Jonttt

[Mattman42]

There are 2 on eBay at the moment for £600 or best offer

hope you are keeping all the original stuff you remove to put back when you sell, being a limited edition, modifications will de value it for people who know what they are looking at

Edited August 11, 2019 by Mattman42

[MIkeyv60]

3 minutes ago, Mattman42 said:

There are 2 on eBay at the moment for £600 or best offer

hope you are keeping all the original stuff you remove to put back when you sell, being a limited edition, modifications will de value it for people who know what they are looking at

Not that rare then

Edited August 11, 2019 by MIkeyv60

[Mattman42]

Just now, MIkeyv60 said:

Not that rare then

Edit - make that 3.... 😂😂

[MIkeyv60]

2 minutes ago, Mattman42 said:

Edit - make that 3.... 😂😂

1 sold last week as well 🤣🤣

[Jonttt]

The ones on Ebay are all damaged, pretty badly in some cases and/or not off a 987 (so have the airbag warning light) and been for sale for ages on and off. They are offered for sale around Europe (same ones on Italian, German, etc ebay) as they are rare and people even try to sell them damaged....

As I said in my post, find me a mint one ......

I always retain original parts which are sold with the car.

I'm impressed you guys took the trouble to look though lol

Edited August 11, 2019 by Jonttt

[Mattman42]

11 minutes ago, Jonttt said:

The ones on Ebay are all damaged, pretty badly in some cases and/or not off a 987 (so have the airbag warning light) and been for sale for ages on and off. They are offered for sale around Europe (same ones on Italian, German, etc ebay) as they are rare and people even try to sell them damaged....

As I said in my post, find me a mint one ......

I always retain original parts which are sold with the car.

I'm impressed you guys took the trouble to look though lol

Don’t feel special, seen them on there for a while when looking for a test console to try a repaint. Just goes to show they are out there if you look.

the problem with carbon fibre is that even the proper stuff looks like a wrap now days as the quality of wraps and dips, etc gets better. Can look a bit ‘halfords’ if you aren’t careful! 😂

The alcantara finish that one of the members had one here looks the business as it really stands out as being special.

each to their own though, be boring if we all liked the same 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Mattman42

[Jonttt]

Love carbon, would never wrap as you can tell. I love Alcantara, just done it with my 981GTS though and the carbon suits the "blackness" of the black edition.......as I said at the start of the thread this is very much a toy hobby car to tinker with. I've modified much more expensive metal

[Jonttt]

I had chance today to fit the OEM 987 Carbon Centre Console........

It was more striaghtforward than I had envisaged and was simply a matter of:

- swapping over the arm rest (simply screws in)

- multimedia input interface (located under the armrest). The new console was from a none multimedia interface 987 so located under the armrest was a 12v accessory socket. The harness for the multimedia interface simply uses the hole for the accessory socket but that meant the 12v accessory point needed to be removed.......impossible lol. I found a few videos / guides on google but I could just not get at the tabs needed to remove the socket.........so it was sacrificed and a simply "dremeled" it out. That was easy and did not mark the console or hole at all   :thumb: The multimedia interface was then just plug and play.

- tracker. The original Cobra tracker is located under the centre console. This is no longer used but to be "belt and braces" I swapped over the tracker box from the original console to the carbon console

- Roof open / close switch. My main concern was that the carbon console has a 987.1 switch. This is considerably smaller / simpler than the 987.2 switch ie it is just a rocker switch whereas the .2 has seperate open/close switches. The bad news was the the switch does require a much larger hole in the console to fit  :roll: That could work with a dremel to enlarge the whole but.....I prefer the smaller/neater rocker switch from the .1 car. So I checked the wiring connector and it is identical. The end result is that conversion from the .2 switch to the .1 switch is just plug and play ie a lot simpler to just use the old switch which I actually prefer. As a bonus the switch is less prone to dust / debris collection than the .2 version which is a bit of a dust trap  :thumb: 

So with prep work done it was simply a matter of fitting the carbon console as per normal, it was literally then just plug and play.......

At the same time I had decided to do something about the Sport Chrono clock pod, the leather on this (if it is leather) is not the same as the leather on the dashboard (my car has the full leather option) and so I decided to get a carbon replacement. The problem being that Porsche (so far as I can establish) does not offer a carbon sport chrono pod for the 987. Fortunately there are aftermarket alternatives so I sourced one of those. Fitting is very easy as the pod just leavers off with a trim tool (its retained by x4 spring clips), unplug the electrical connector and swap over the clock which is retained via a bracket and x4 screws.......

the Cobra tracker module sits in its own cradle under the centre console....

Carbon Sport Chrono pod...

and the finished centre console install.....

and the smaller / neater .1 roof switch....

One decision I have is that the OEM centre console does not come with a carbon trim for access under the handbrake lever, this is not missing, it does not exist OEM and so you use the original black plastic trim piece. I think this looks OK but there is an aftermarket carbon trim you can buy. The problem is its c£130   ........I'll have a think about it 😁

So job done, there are a couple of black plastic door trims I would like to replace with carbon items but they are not cheap so ebay is my friend  :thumb: 

I'm very pleased with the end result and how its coming together, just need some sun now  :roll:

[MH82]

On 8/11/2019 at 6:54 PM, Mattman42 said:

The alcantara finish that one of the members had one here looks the business as it really stands out as being special.

Thanks 😉👍🏻

[fildyke]

4 hours ago, Jonttt said:

I had chance today to fit the OEM 987 Carbon Centre Console........

It was more striaghtforward than I had envisaged and was simply a matter of:

- swapping over the arm rest (simply screws in)

- multimedia input interface (located under the armrest). The new console was from a none multimedia interface 987 so located under the armrest was a 12v accessory socket. The harness for the multimedia interface simply uses the hole for the accessory socket but that meant the 12v accessory point needed to be removed.......impossible lol. I found a few videos / guides on google but I could just not get at the tabs needed to remove the socket.........so it was sacrificed and a simply "dremeled" it out. That was easy and did not mark the console or hole at all   :thumb: The multimedia interface was then just plug and play.

- tracker. The original Cobra tracker is located under the centre console. This is no longer used but to be "belt and braces" I swapped over the tracker box from the original console to the carbon console

- Roof open / close switch. My main concern was that the carbon console has a 987.1 switch. This is considerably smaller / simpler than the 987.2 switch ie it is just a rocker switch whereas the .2 has seperate open/close switches. The bad news was the the switch does require a much larger hole in the console to fit  :roll: That could work with a dremel to enlarge the whole but.....I prefer the smaller/neater rocker switch from the .1 car. So I checked the wiring connector and it is identical. The end result is that conversion from the .2 switch to the .1 switch is just plug and play ie a lot simpler to just use the old switch which I actually prefer. As a bonus the switch is less prone to dust / debris collection than the .2 version which is a bit of a dust trap  :thumb: 

So with prep work done it was simply a matter of fitting the carbon console as per normal, it was literally then just plug and play.......

At the same time I had decided to do something about the Sport Chrono clock pod, the leather on this (if it is leather) is not the same as the leather on the dashboard (my car has the full leather option) and so I decided to get a carbon replacement. The problem being that Porsche (so far as I can establish) does not offer a carbon sport chrono pod for the 987. Fortunately there are aftermarket alternatives so I sourced one of those. Fitting is very easy as the pod just leavers off with a trim tool (its retained by x4 spring clips), unplug the electrical connector and swap over the clock which is retained via a bracket and x4 screws.......

the Cobra tracker module sits in its own cradle under the centre console....

Carbon Sport Chrono pod...

and the finished centre console install.....

and the smaller / neater .1 roof switch....

One decision I have is that the OEM centre console does not come with a carbon trim for access under the handbrake lever, this is not missing, it does not exist OEM and so you use the original black plastic trim piece. I think this looks OK but there is an aftermarket carbon trim you can buy. The problem is its c£130   ........I'll have a think about it 😁

So job done, there are a couple of black plastic door trims I would like to replace with carbon items but they are not cheap so ebay is my friend  :thumb: 

I'm very pleased with the end result and how its coming together, just need some sun now  :roll:

Had you thought about getting the black trim hydrodipped. 

I have a similar carbon fetish on my Audi RS4 and have found for pieces which aren't readily available the finish on a well done hydrodip is far more realistic than a wrap. 

Great thread by the way. Nearly as good as the one on the BGTS which was the catalyst for us buying ours. one of the best car buying decisions we ever made.