Bike fell on my car

[dpg123]

Some advice please!

I live in London and rental electric bikes are a real pain - at the end of a hire, riders literally abandon them anywhere they like with little regard for others. Across pavements, in parking spaces for cars, across driveways etc. It's mainly younger people it seems, who just don't seem capable of thinking.

Anyway, I returned home last Thursday and found one of these heavy electric bikes on the ground and against my Macan. It had fallen down and damaged the bumper and wing - quoted £750 for repair.

I retrieved the footage from the camera outside my house which captured everything and sure enough a teenager left the bike beside my car, literally 90 degrees across the pavement blocking it completely, and walks off. Within 20 seconds the bike falls into my car.

I took photos and moved the bike to a safe place, taking note of the bike reg. I also then saw the teenager who abandoned the bike on the street. I showed him the footage and he admitted it was him and gave me his dads number (he's 16). I called LIME (the bike company) who sent me a claim form. I filled it in, sent in the video, photos and the quote for repair. Their insurer got back to me last night saying they're not liable as the bike "has to be on active hire" to qualify for cover. LIME themselves say it's nothing to do with them (they own the bike) and it was an "act of God".

What am I to do here? I'm pretty p*ssed with the thoughtlessness of the teenager - he would have heard the bike fall. I'm annoyed at insurance as the bike was obviously left in a dangerous and unsecure position but the last user. LIME are simply a joke - it's their bike that damaged my car. It clearly wasn't left secured and was inevitably going to fall. 

Thoughts anyone?

[Quinten]

I suspect this is going to be a very long process of firstly claiming on your own insurance and then using legal action to recover the costs.  Small claims court may be suitable for this?

[r1flyguy]

6 minutes ago, Quinten said:

I suspect this is going to be a very long process of firstly claiming on your own insurance and then using legal action to recover the costs.  Small claims court may be suitable for this?

Id agree with this, due negligence on behalf of the last user. Small claims court, don't let the little inconsiderate little shyate get away with it. 🤬

[Menoporsche]

Forget the three parties for a moment.  If a teenager had their own bike and crashed into your car, would you claim and if so how?

I suspect you'd have to be pretty determined to get something off Lime, I think like most companies these days they use a complicated system of contracts and ownership to avoid responsibility for anything.

 

Just seen r1's answer - negligence should do. 

[r1flyguy]

4 hours ago, Menoporsche said:

Forget the three parties for a moment.  If a teenager had their own bike and crashed into your car, would you claim and if so how?

I suspect you'd have to be pretty determined to get something off Lime, I think like most companies these days they use a complicated system of contracts and ownership to avoid responsibility for anything.

 

Just seen r1's answer - negligence should do. 

@Menoporscheapproached this very professionally , i just went for the jugular as this scenario boils my p*ss. You work hard for what you have and people with no respect or common sense cause you financial distress.

[CMA]

Do you have legal cover on your insurance policy? If so find their details and give them a call and talk through the options available and see what they suggest.

[dpg123]

22 minutes ago, CMA said:

Do you have legal cover on your insurance policy? If so find their details and give them a call and talk through the options available and see what they suggest.

Good idea, I'm waiting for them to call back - in the meantime, I sent LIME this:

Good day,

 

This response is absolutely unacceptable. Clearly the bike had been left in a dangerous and negligent position whilst under your ownership and care, which goes against the rules published on your website:

 

QTE

Do not park in locations that are not permitted, which include, but are not limited to:

·         Wheelchair ramps

·         The middle of bike or pedestrian pathways

·         Hospital entrances

·         Fire stations

·         Inside gated communities

·         No Parking Zones (may be met with fines)

UNQTE

 

The fact that these rules are published on your site demonstrates your knowledge and acceptance that it is illegal to block the walkway with a bike. As such, it is plain that the bike was in an illegal position in your ownership and care. The fact the bike immediately fell over damaging my car demonstrates it was left negligent and/or dangerous condition and/or the vehicle is damaged/faulty. It is only luck that the bike did not fall onto a child causing injury or worse.

 

As the hire had ended, the responsibility immediately reverts from the hire customer to the owner of the vehicle (LIME/Impressum (Neutron Holdings Limited)) who are now laible for the safety and condition of that vehicle.

 

I hereby give you notice that I intend to commence court action in the UK as follows:

 

From:

XXX

To:

Impressum

Neutron Holdings, Inc.
85 2nd Street
Suite 100
San Francisco, CA 94105
USA

 

Re: Damage to Vehicle caused by a LIME Bike owned and operated by LIME / Impressum (Nuetron Holdings Limited) being negligently and dangerously abandoned whilst under their care.

 

Dear Sir,

 

I note your message dated 23 February 2022 rejecting my claim for damages against LIME for damage caused to my car as a result of LIME’s bike being negligently abandoned in an unsecure and dangerous position outside my home, whilst under the care and responsibility of LIME / Impressum (Neutron Holdings Limited), which resulted in the bike collapsing into my vehicle causing £750 of damage.

 

I am once again requesting a full payment of the damages caused (£750) - I again attach the evidence of the incident and the quotation for repair.

I request a reply as soon as possible to confirm you have received this letter.

 

To avoid taking court action, I am willing to use Alternative Dispute Resolution in the UK as a competent jurisdiction, to resolve this problem (in line with clause 18(h) of your user agreement).

 

If I do not receive a satisfactory response from you within 14 days of the date of this letter, I intend to issue proceedings against you in the county court without further notice. This may increase your liability for costs.

 

I refer you to the Practice Direction on pre-action conduct under the Civil Procedure Rules, and in particular to paragraph 13-16 which sets out the sanctions the court may impose if you fail to comply with the Practice Direction. You have a legal obligation to respond to this letter.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

[dpg123]

Just now, dpg123 said:

Good idea, I'm waiting for them to call back - in the meantime, I sent LIME this:

Good day,

 

This response is absolutely unacceptable. Clearly the bike had been left in a dangerous and negligent position whilst under your ownership and care, which goes against the rules published on your website:

 

QTE

Do not park in locations that are not permitted, which include, but are not limited to:

·         Wheelchair ramps

·         The middle of bike or pedestrian pathways

·         Hospital entrances

·         Fire stations

·         Inside gated communities

·         No Parking Zones (may be met with fines)

UNQTE

 

The fact that these rules are published on your site demonstrates your knowledge and acceptance that it is illegal to block the walkway with a bike. As such, it is plain that the bike was in an illegal position in your ownership and care. The fact the bike immediately fell over damaging my car demonstrates it was left negligent and/or dangerous condition and/or the vehicle is damaged/faulty. It is only luck that the bike did not fall onto a child causing injury or worse.

 

As the hire had ended, the responsibility immediately reverts from the hire customer to the owner of the vehicle (LIME/Impressum (Neutron Holdings Limited)) who are now laible for the safety and condition of that vehicle.

 

I hereby give you notice that I intend to commence court action in the UK as follows:

 

From:

XXX

To:

Impressum

Neutron Holdings, Inc.
85 2nd Street
Suite 100
San Francisco, CA 94105
USA

 

Re: Damage to Vehicle caused by a LIME Bike owned and operated by LIME / Impressum (Nuetron Holdings Limited) being negligently and dangerously abandoned whilst under their care.

 

Dear Sir,

 

I note your message dated 23 February 2022 rejecting my claim for damages against LIME for damage caused to my car as a result of LIME’s bike being negligently abandoned in an unsecure and dangerous position outside my home, whilst under the care and responsibility of LIME / Impressum (Neutron Holdings Limited), which resulted in the bike collapsing into my vehicle causing £750 of damage.

 

I am once again requesting a full payment of the damages caused (£750) - I again attach the evidence of the incident and the quotation for repair.

I request a reply as soon as possible to confirm you have received this letter.

 

To avoid taking court action, I am willing to use Alternative Dispute Resolution in the UK as a competent jurisdiction, to resolve this problem (in line with clause 18(h) of your user agreement).

 

If I do not receive a satisfactory response from you within 14 days of the date of this letter, I intend to issue proceedings against you in the county court without further notice. This may increase your liability for costs.

 

I refer you to the Practice Direction on pre-action conduct under the Civil Procedure Rules, and in particular to paragraph 13-16 which sets out the sanctions the court may impose if you fail to comply with the Practice Direction. You have a legal obligation to respond to this letter.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Problem is the company is based in the USA - I don't think my letter holds any legal weight at all. If they don't pay up, do I pursue the 16yo's dad or is that unfair? Do I swallow this and take satisfaction by spending some spare time on Twitter and Instagram shaming LIME and spreading the word as far and wide as I can that they're an unscrupulous and untrustworthy company with zero morals or integrity? Millennials seem to think these big corporations somehow care about the environment/customer but in reality they're a cash generator for shareholders at all costs, same as any other firm. They're complete scum.

[BrianJ]

Were LIME were awarded the contract by a local council (or similar)? If so, have you tried reporting it to them and asking what action they suggest? Some councils licencing "Boris bikes", e-scooters, etc have taken action against these companies as a result of complaints from residents. Worth at least registering a complaint with them. They should have a local senior contact in the company that could assist. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by BrianJ

[Scubaregs]

Have you contacted the boys parents and asked them to cover the costs?

[dpg123]

9 minutes ago, Scubaregs said:

Have you contacted the boys parents and asked them to cover the costs?

I have, he seemed initially taken aback and then very defensive. He said claim off my insurance - his son's only 16, has no money and wont pay. As a father he says he has no liability...

[Scubaregs]

13 minutes ago, dpg123 said:

I have, he seemed initially taken aback and then very defensive. He said claim off my insurance - his son's only 16, has no money and wont pay. As a father he says he has no liability...

Sounds like a decent bloke who takes his moral responsibilities seriously and knows where his obligations lie.

Actually, upon reflection he sounds like a twunt.

[map]

3rd party damage - we have it for our dogs in the event they do something that leads to loss/damage to a 3rd party.

The cover is in two places - a specific 2nd policy for those situations where our household insurance doesn’t cover it (1st policy)

This may surprise many of you but our dogs do not have any money.  They do not vote, read or drive either. But the consequences of their actions are covered by Household insurance.

In this case the 16 year old is equivalent to one of our dogs - and yes his keeper ought to be cleaning up after him too.

Personally I would sue the 16 year old via the Small Claims procedure and go from there. 

[EXY]

Sorry to hear this and some great responses so far.

I'm curious though, when the hire finishes do they just jump off the bike and abandon it where they stand? Who collects it and when does it get charged etc.

Nothing stopping you moving it to a pedestrian safe area, you know beside a river and hope an act of God doesn't intervene and tip it in.

[EXY]

22 minutes ago, map said:

3rd party damage - we have it for our dogs in the event they do something that leads to loss/damage to a 3rd party.

This may surprise many of you but our dogs do not have any money.

In this case the 16 year old is equivalent to one of our dogs - and yes his keeper ought to be cleaning up after him too.

That did make me chuckle 😃 

[r1flyguy]

1 minute ago, EXY said:

 

Nothing stopping you moving it to a pedestrian safe area, you know beside a river and hope an act of God doesn't intervene and tip it in.

This is actually a good point, what if this did occur and the ‘operator/owner’ came after you for damages would this not show they had some ‘control’ over the property whilst not in use, otherwise anyone could just throw these things in the canal with no recourse if they were ‘not on hire’ at the time.

[dpg123]

9 minutes ago, r1flyguy said:

This is actually a good point, what if this did occur and the ‘operator/owner’ came after you for damages would this not show they had some ‘control’ over the property whilst not in use, otherwise anyone could just throw these things in the canal with no recourse if they were ‘not on hire’ at the time.

I understand that these bikes have GPS installed and the operator monitors battery and location remotely. They'll then drive around to relocate the bikes as necessary and charge them etc. I also heard they ave sensors indicating when they've fallen over. I'm not sure who else here lives in London, but LIME bikes in particular are just abandoned anywhere. They are almost always lying on their side as well, which shows me they're not stable. 

My question is, if one of these bikes fell over and injured a child (or worse as they're very heavy), is LIME simply able to say they've zero liability? It's their bike at the end of the day, and if it falls over then it's nobody else's fault but theirs.

[map]

9 minutes ago, dpg123 said:

My question is, if one of these bikes fell over and injured a child (or worse as they're very heavy), is LIME simply able to say they've zero liability? It's their bike at the end of the day, and if it falls over then it's nobody else's fault but theirs.

This, in principle is no different to the liability a business has for making sure that folk can't get into their skips and hurt themselves.  Even when the business is closed.  We had exactly this scenario years ago and the Police were clear - essentially: "yes it's on private land, yes it's stupid to climb into a skip with broken glass in it but it is your job to keep people safe" (not a verbatim quote).

Reading back through the comments I think the idea of going after the licensing authority's support is probably worthwhile.

[Araf]

I think I would have taken the bike into safe care until Lime paid for the damage and retrieved the bike.  

As has already been said, these bike hire companies have to be insured in order to work the streets.  If a council has opted for a company without adequate cover to pay for accidental damage (as they appear to be telling you) then their licence should be revoked.

[Paul P]

1 hour ago, Araf said:

I think I would have taken the bike into safe care until Lime paid for the damage and retrieved the bike.  

As has already been said, these bike hire companies have to be insured in order to work the streets.  If a council has opted for a company without adequate cover to pay for accidental damage (as they appear to be telling you) then their licence should be revoked.

Thats an interesting point - council license them, council "own the pavements", so does the council have any liability here.

As per others - if you have legal cover on the insurance then I would unleash the dogs and let them have their fun, you have given everyone a chance to play nicely.

[Clivescoobydo]

2 hours ago, Araf said:

I think I would have taken the bike into safe care until Lime paid for the damage and retrieved the bike.  

As has already been said, these bike hire companies have to be insured in order to work the streets.  If a council has opted for a company without adequate cover to pay for accidental damage (as they appear to be telling you) then their licence should be revoked.

Same or take a small cordless angle grinder and cut every single frame of a LIME bike you see in half ☺️

[dpg123]

50 minutes ago, Clivescoobydo said:

Same or take a small cordless angle grinder and cut every single frame of a LIME bike you see in half ☺️

My 4x4 rolled over your LIME Bike. I wasn't in it so it's absolutely nothing to do with me. Soz.

[Stuart21UK]

6 hours ago, dpg123 said:

I have, he seemed initially taken aback and then very defensive. He said claim off my insurance - his son's only 16, has no money and wont pay. As a father he says he has no liability...

Take the feker to court, join Lime as an additional responsible party

Use your car legal cover to do so.

[Boxob]

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2019/jun/03/lime-e-bike-company-wont-pay-for-900-damage-to-my-car

From 2019. They have history.

[Boxob]

I struggle to believe the owners of these bikes and scooters do not carry third party liability insurance. Badly discarded bikes after rental are a trip hazard. I bet a no win no fee lawyer would have a field day.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Boxob